# How has same sex marriage affected the five countries who have legalized it for a decade or more? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2016, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309 "2016-10-12T03:33:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/121 "2016-10-26T22:15:30Z")
> [@WilyQuixote](#): > > As no one posting here lives in Westeros, what is the supposed harm of being born out of wedlock? Thanks, that’s what I was thinking. There seems to be an unfounded assumption that being born out-of-wedlock is in-and-of-itself a negative quality. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/122 "2016-10-26T23:03:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What you’ve written is itself nonsense. > > Statisticians can adjust single variables in lab test conditions. Society is not controllable in that manner, and it can’t be done. Ridiculous, and a convenient excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/123 "2016-10-30T18:21:28Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Nonsense. Statisticians deal with this all the time; it’s actually pretty easy to determine if a single variable changing in a complex system affected the results, particularly when–as in this case–we have lots of data about trend lines and rates of change from both before and after the variable changed. > > I frankly couldn’t care less about the answer, since I don’t see much harm in out of wedlock births or marriage rates changing, but the notion that “well there’s no way to know, so all explanations are equally valid” is total nonsense. When your sample size is _five_ (since that’s the number of countries specified in the OP), it’s actually _not pretty easy at all_ to determine if a single variable changed much of anything. This is a big part of why the conclusions of the social sceinces, especially if you’re doing international comparisons, are usually a lot weaker and more dubious than those of the natural sciences. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/124 "2016-10-31T03:36:57Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > When your sample size is _five_ (since that’s the number of countries specified in the OP), Which is why I said we have “lots of data about trend lines and rates of change from both before and after the variable changed.” We’re looking for trend changes in a population before and after an event, not differences between geographic locations. I’d use the “sample size” of millions (of people), or dozens/hundreds (of years/months), rather than try to pivot on “country.” This isn’t rocket science. It’s first-semester statistics. Are you seriously claiming we can’t draw conclusions about anything in the world because everybody’s living on the same planet, so all questions about people have a sample size of one? Because that’s sure what that sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/125 "2016-10-31T03:41:17Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > When your sample size is _five_ (since that’s the number of countries specified in the OP) Unless you’re under the impression each country has had only one gay marriage, your observation is statistically unsound. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/126 "2016-10-31T05:05:46Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > They are symptoms of the same problem. The weakening of marriage as an institution. The case for gay marriage is that marriage is about love and convenience. The case against is that it is about family. Since love and convenience are ephemeral, anything that is based on them is built on shifting sand. The recognition of gay marriage by the state puts us further down the road that marriage is not about family and thus we should expect fewer people creating stable families and more out of wedlock births and subsequent social pathologies. No. The issue is not about what you think or what I think marriage is supposed to be “about”. Marriage is a social institution that many people consider very important to them, and for good reason: symbolism and social recognition have always been major aspects of all societies. This is all we need to know. Because by denying certain people the right to that social institution, you’re creating an underclass, a lower-tier order of human that is presumed not to be entitled to the same human rights and social standing as the rest of us. And _ **that** _ is a social pathology, and a serious one – one that condones and implicitly promotes discrimination and bigotry. So how has Canada been doing? Just fine, thanks. Promoting a progressive, tolerant, multicultural society that most of us are glad to be part of. Though I regret to announce that, despite all the fear-mongering from the right promising it will happen, to this day I am still not permitted to marry my dog. ---
**Author:** ![Crazier\_Catlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Crazier\_Catlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazier_Catlady)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/127 "2016-10-31T12:35:51Z")
Actually, [marrying your dog](http://www.marryyourpet.com/) is perfectly legal. It just doesn’t get recognized by any country I know of… ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/128 "2016-10-31T12:43:51Z")
> [@Crazier\_Catlady](#): > > Actually, [marrying your dog](http://www.marryyourpet.com/) is perfectly legal. It just doesn’t get recognized by any country I know of… Some countries have laws against consummation of such a marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/129 "2016-11-04T08:10:18Z")
> [@Crazier\_Catlady](#): > > Actually, [marrying your dog](http://www.marryyourpet.com/) is perfectly legal. It just doesn’t get recognized by any country I know of… I admire the integrity of the author of that website, being opposed to divorce and all. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/130 "2016-11-04T13:42:40Z")
An anti-same sex marriage protestor once told me “Someone in Australia married his dog.” I shot back “Same Sex Marriage isn’t even legal in Australia.” Turns out the “marriage” was a same sex marriage protest: If you can marry a man, why can’t you marry your dog?" ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309/131 "2016-11-04T14:48:08Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > They are symptoms of the same problem [SSM]. The weakening of marriage as an institution… Allowing two people who love each other to marry is _weakening_ marriage? Is this a new application of [Newspeak?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak) > [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If we’re going to exclude gay people from marriage because they can’t have children, then we should exclude ALL infertile people. No post-menopausal women, no men with low sperm counts, no impotent men, whatever. For that matter, we should remove the children of divorced parents from either, since single people can’t have children and there is no longer a hetero, two-parent family. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … if gay marriage was banned in places where it is now legal, by what mechanism would it _decrease_ out-of-wedlock births? I, too, and trying to wrap my head around a supposed mechanism. Correlation/causation aside, [one of Puddlegum’s links](http://newstalk1290.com/greg-abbot-says-texas-marriage-laws-reduce-out-of-wedlock-births/) said, quoting Texas’ Attorney General Gregg Abbott: > [@](#): > > Texas’s marriage laws are rationally related to the State’s interest in reducing unplanned out-of-wedlock births. By channeling procreative heterosexual intercourse into marriage, Texas’s marriage laws reduce unplanned out-of-wedlock births and the costs that those births impose on society. Recognizing same-sex marriage does not advance this interest because same-sex unions do not result in pregnancy. This seems to suggest that gays should marry heterosexually just to reduce out-of-wedlock births. It makes no sense. Forcing someone into an undesired marriage to preserve something the state considers desirable is certainly not a recipe for happiness for parents or children. The state needs to stay out of our bedrooms and keep the fuck away from our families. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-same-sex-marriage-affected-the-five-countries-who-have-legalized-it-for-a-decade-or-more/768309.md?page=6)