# How has Zionism become the new world "evil"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386 "2009-04-26T05:33:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Querent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ba8739/32.png) [@Querent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Querent)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/1 "2009-04-26T05:33:01Z")
☹ So why am I suddenly hearing all this crap about “Zionism is racism”, “Zionism is to Jews what Nazism was to Germans”? Is the Arab/Islamist propaganda so good, or is antisemitism growing again with the downturn of world economy or is this another sign of the dumbing down syndrome??? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/2 "2009-04-26T05:50:15Z")
> [@Querent](#): > > ☹ So why am I suddenly hearing all this crap about “Zionism is racism”, “Zionism is to Jews what Nazism was to Germans”? You’re paying more attention ? Ranting about evil “Zionists” has been around a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/3 "2009-04-26T06:02:54Z")
My dad was at a protest in New Haven, CT in 1970 for the release of Bobby Seale. An SDS representative came on stage (this was a well-organized protest) and instead of dealing with the matter at hand, started railing against Israel and the fascist racist Zionist pigs. The next person to speak was Abbie Hoffman. He stood up, gave the SDS spokescritter an incredulous look, and said, “Speaking as a racist fascist Zionist pig, what the \*fuck \*did that have to do with Bobby Seale?” In conclusion: Abbie Hoffman rocked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/4 "2009-04-26T06:26:47Z")
> [@Querent](#): > > ☹ So why am I suddenly hearing all this crap about “Zionism is racism”, “Zionism is to Jews what Nazism was to Germans”? > > Is the Arab/Islamist propaganda so good, or is antisemitism growing again with the downturn of world economy or is this another sign of the dumbing down syndrome??? You haven’t eliminated the possibilities. Turns out more and more people are thinking that Zionism hasn’t worked out as promised and is less than desirable. I used to be a firm supporter of Israel, but frankly now believe their cause to be misguided and inescapably racist. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/5 "2009-04-26T06:28:15Z")
I don’t think it’s the “new” world evil. People have been protesting Israel in a big way since before it was Israel. Every time things heat up there, the issue of whether Israel has a right to exist comes back into conversation. This isn’t necessarily a racist issue at the core, but lots of people of different cultures all seem to think the place belongs to them. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/6 "2009-04-26T07:29:27Z")
> [@Querent](#): > > ☹ So why am I suddenly hearing all this crap about “Zionism is racism”, “Zionism is to Jews what Nazism was to Germans”? > > Is the Arab/Islamist propaganda so good, or is antisemitism growing again with the downturn of world economy or is this another sign of the dumbing down syndrome??? Have you been reading Texe Marrs? Seriously, the guy has been raving about the Jews controlling the U.S. for a long time. In answer to the second question-probably all of the above. Tamara+, Zionist ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/7 "2009-04-26T07:31:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > In conclusion: Abbie Hoffman rocked. true ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/8 "2009-04-26T08:20:18Z")
> [@Querent](#): > > ☹ So why am I suddenly hearing all this crap about “Zionism is racism”, “Zionism is to Jews what Nazism was to Germans”? > > Is the Arab/Islamist propaganda so good, or is antisemitism growing again with the downturn of world economy or is this another sign of the dumbing down syndrome??? Where exactly are you hearing this? Antisemitism is way outside the mainstream in the Western world today. Outside the Muslim world it’s not particularly widespread either. In the US, Islamophobia and anti-Arab bigotry are far more common and virulent than anti-Semitism. The “Barack Obama is a Muslism” canards and the widespread perception that this was a problem for him is a good example of this. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/9 "2009-04-26T09:18:17Z")
I would say that “Zionism is racism” reflects the dumbing-down of discourse to precisely the same degree as “Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism” does. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/10 "2009-04-26T09:42:13Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Antisemitism is way outside the mainstream in the Western world today. How much weight are you giving ‘way’? It’s not _exactly_ [anathema](http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=262). A politician could more easily get away with anti-Muslim rhetoric but as far as virulence goes, anti-Jewish hate-crimes top the latest FBI [list](http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/table_01.htm) for religiously motivated incidents. > [@Querent](#): > > ☹ So why am I suddenly hearing all this crap about “Zionism is racism”, “Zionism is to Jews what Nazism was to Germans”? > > Is the Arab/Islamist propaganda so good, or is antisemitism growing again with the downturn of world economy or is this another sign of the dumbing down syndrome??? Can’t it be all three? You’ve probably been made aware of this sentiment because of the recent [Durban Review Conference](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/24/durban-racism-conference-ahmadinejad). It’s politically expedient in many countries, including western ones. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/11 "2009-04-26T12:01:06Z")
> [@Tamara+](#): > > Have you been reading Texe Marrs? Seriously, the guy has been raving about the Jews controlling the U.S. for a long time. > In answer to the second question-probably all of the above. > Tamara+, Zionist Marrs IS however an anomaly in that he’s a Christian far-right conservative who is openly anti-Zionist, and also anti-Christian-supporter-of-Israel (Billy Graham, Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell are all Zionist-Illuminati agents & probably Luciferian Masons to boot!) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/12 "2009-04-26T12:42:28Z")
It’s always easier to toss around catchy slogans than it is to deal with serious issues. “Zionism is racism. Pro-life (meaning that to oppose them is to be anti-life.) Tax-and-spend liberals. Stupid Pollacks. Inscrutable Chinks.” The list goes on and on. Agreed, Israel has problems. These problems don’t stem from the Israelis being racist so much as from facing enemies who want to destroy them and their state, dating back to the 1940s. And many of the people who suffer from that situation are innocents, caught in the middle. This is a complex issue, and not one that will be solved by claiming that all Arabs are terrorists or that all Zionists are racists. Any more than the race problems still facing the US will be solved by name-calling or oversimplifying complex issues. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/13 "2009-04-26T12:54:56Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > I would say that “Zionism is racism” reflects the dumbing-down of discourse to precisely the same degree as “Anti-Zionism is anti-semitism” does. Amen and amen. I think it is ridiculous that a group of people believe that an incorporeal entity granted them the inalienable right to occupy a piece of land. That doesn’t mean I think that Jews as a race are inferior to any other race. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/14 "2009-04-26T12:57:00Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > This is a complex issue . . . with a very simple genesis: the belief that “god said it’s my land so fuck everybody else,” which is patently stupid and not worty of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/15 "2009-04-26T13:52:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > . . . with a very simple genesis: the belief that “god said it’s my land so fuck everybody else,” which is patently stupid and not worty of respect. Except that Zionism was devised - and implemented successfully - by agnostic and atheist intellectuals, and not, as any reasonably educated person would know, by the religious-minded. It had much more to do with late-19th Century European nationalism (which also led to the unifications of Germany and Italy and the lifting of Turkish rule from the Balkans) than with any God. “Religious Zionism,” the subset that the ignorant confuse with mainstream, Zionism, largely arose after 1967. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/16 "2009-04-26T14:20:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Except that Zionism was devised - and implemented successfully - by agnostic and atheist intellectuals, and not, as any reasonably educated person would know, by the religious-minded. It had much more to do with late-19th Century European nationalism (which also led to the unifications of Germany and Italy and the lifting of Turkish rule from the Balkans) than with any God. “Religious Zionism,” the subset that the ignorant confuse with mainstream, Zionism, largely arose after 1967. And on the other side, the early anti-zionist Arabs who tried to force the Jews out of Palestine were largely motivated by pan-arabic nationalism rather then religion. Not that religion is a non-factor, especially now. But it hardly deserves the bulk of the blame. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/17 "2009-04-26T15:14:27Z")
I suspect that the direct answer to the OP is in Dr Crap’s post. Anyone hearing “more” about issues of “Zionism” has probbly caught recent reports that the U.S., U.K. and numerous other countries intend to boycott the UN conference in Geneva intended to follow up on the issues of racism. The Durban conference was hijacked by the “anti-Zionist” zealots in 2001, leading to the U.S. and numerous other countries walking out before it ended. The missino statement set for Geneva gave lip service to avoiding the same problem, but then turned right around and set an agenda that was pretty much a list of meetings to condemn Israel. Hence, a number of countries that chose to not sit on a kangaroo court of condemnation decided to boycott Geneva, leading to a number of discussions, in the news, about Zionism. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/18 "2009-04-26T15:15:15Z")
**Rand Rover** , do not hijack this thread with appeals to imaginary events, please. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/19 "2009-04-26T15:22:30Z")
> [@Querent](#): > > Is the Arab/Islamist propaganda so good, or is antisemitism growing again with the downturn of world economy or is this another sign of the dumbing down syndrome??? All of these come into play to some extent, but as mentioned in connection with the UN (see previous link), railings against Zionism are meant to take the heat off the worst human rights offenders: _“the countries that endorsed the (anti-racism, pro-human rights agenda) include some of the worst violators of human rights, with murder of opponents, suppression of women and homosexuals, slavery and savage punishments.”_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386/20 "2009-04-26T18:15:43Z")
Here’s a practical reason: Zionism does not **directly** harm anyone but the Palestinians and, on odd occasions, the Lebanese. But it complicates things for everyone. The “Arab street” is constantly exercised over it, and it gives government leaders around the Islamic world a rally-round-the-flag point whenever they feel like being aggressive or oppressive, and of course is also a propaganda point for jihadist terrorists. And, of course, all non-Islamic states have to take that into account in their relations with Israel and with the Islamic world, and it’s just one big long massive unending migraine headache. If the Israeli-Palestinian situation were finally resolved, whether by a one-state or a two-state solution, that would be a good thing for everybody. Therefore, the Israelis can’t fairly claim the whole situation is their internal business and theirs alone; all the world, willy-nilly, has a stake in it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-has-zionism-become-the-new-world-evil/494386.md?page=2)