# How high could I jump if my legs were as powerful as a house cat's hind legs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421 "2003-12-22T06:24:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/41 "2003-12-22T12:43:16Z")
OK, but still well short of a 6ft fence post. Another pointless observation/anecdote: In my last house, I had a bird feeder attached to a batten suspended from the top of one of my fence posts; I observed one of my neighbour’s cats to leap from a crouched position in the herbaceous border below and take one of the young blue tits from the feeder. I know this is just me saying it, not some physicist, but do you think I’m just making this up or I am mistaken, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/42 "2003-12-22T12:44:23Z")
> [@](#): > > The ignorance that we’re currently fighting is yours. I encourage that. I am as ignorant as the next man. But my ignorance will not be dispelled through the use of arguments from ignorance. I want to see some facts, because so far all the reputable evidence supports my ignorant position. If I am ignorant the so are a lot of college professors in physics and animal physiology. And that seems to include the erudite Professor Schmidt-Nielsen, the world’s foremost authority on comparative animal physiology. I expect that no one needs me to explain why I will trust this man over anecdote. [http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/scaling/Kleiber.htm](http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/scaling/Kleiber.htm) physical constraints are things that limit how much an organism can be modified to cope with changes in scaling. For example, as Schmidt-Nielsen has pointed out so well, you and a flea can perform a standing jump to more or less the same height (The flea can jump 20cm high, you can raise you centre of gravity about 40cm jumping from standing. The only reason why you win is because the flea suffers so much air resistance). But because muscles can only contract so fast (a physical constraint associated with the way muscle works) the flea jumps not by simply contracting its muscles, but by compressing a chunk of highly elastic resilin, and then explosively releasing this. At such a small scale, the muscles simply wouldn’t contract fast enough to propel the flea upwards - so the flea has found a trick that overcomes the physical constraint. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/43 "2003-12-22T12:48:19Z")
Ok, this cite is on a university webpage, and _my cite is even cited_, but I guess it doesn’t count because I googled it? [Mountain lions have the ability to jump up to 18 to 20 feet from the ground to a tree limb or rock ledge (Nowak 1991; Whitaker 1980).](http://home.sou.edu/~rible/wildlife/mtlion.htm) > [@](#): > > I have already given you three. You’ve given me zero. None of your cites even _mention_ pumas. > [@](#): > > No, and since this is GQ I am calling you out. Give us a reputable reference for that please. [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_045.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_045.html) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/44 "2003-12-22T12:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > do you think I’m just making this up or I am mistaken, or what? I couldn’t say. What do you think? Do you think it more likely that all the world’s animal physiologists are wrong, or that you are wrong? I am an arrogant SOB, but if I found that all the world’s foremost scientists in a field told me that what I think I saw was impossible I would begin by doubting myself. Remember to take into account what I said about animals pivoting in flight as human high-jumpers do. Can you be sure the cat wasn’t doing the feline equivalent to a frosby flop? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/45 "2003-12-22T12:51:37Z")
You were obviously mistaken **Mangetout** , because otherwise, it would contradict the erudite Professor Schmidt-Nielsen. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/46 "2003-12-22T12:57:44Z")
> [@](#): > > , this cite is on a university webpage, and my cite is even cited, but I guess it doesn’t count because I googled it? No it doesn’t count because it only mentions an ability to “jump up to 18 to 20 feet from the ground to a tree limb”. It doesn’t mention whether the jump was from a standing start or if it involved scrabbling. No dice sorry. > [@](#): > > You’ve given me zero. None of your cites even mention pumas. No, that’s right. How silly of me, they only mention all animals, and of course we know that pumas aren’t animals. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_045.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_045.html) Cecil says that scientists never ‘discovered that bumblebees shouldn’t be able to fly’. It was a mistake made by one scientist whilst drunk in a non-professional context. Unless you are suggesting that all those professors that have been cited so far were drunk and in a non-professional context I can’t see what your point is. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/47 "2003-12-22T12:59:08Z")
What kind of pivot could a cat do to add 2’ to that 3.5’ jump? I’m just curious, since just about every person that’s had a housecat that’s allowed to jump on top of things will eventually see a cat jump onto the top of a fridge. Unfortunatly, mathmatics mean jack squat to me. I was never good at math, other than addition/subtraction. Hehe. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/48 "2003-12-22T13:02:19Z")
BTW I understand, **Blake** , that you’ve currently got a Pit thread going with someone who sees dead people. This thread is altogether different. You’ve got a bunch of regular people who see cats jump over fences every day. There’s a difference between asking for proof of ghosts, and asking for proof that cats can jump fences. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/49 "2003-12-22T13:06:26Z")
[hijack] While looking on Yahoo for any mention of cat jump heights, I did find a page about winged cats. [http://www.messybeast.com/winged-cats.htm](http://www.messybeast.com/winged-cats.htm) Hmm. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/50 "2003-12-22T13:06:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > \*\*I couldn’t say. What do you think? Do you think it more likely that all the world’s animal physiologists are wrong, or that you are wrong? \*\*If I’d only seen it once, out of the corner of my eye, I’d be happy to admit I was just plain wrong, but like I’ve said, cats and six-foot fences are ubiquitous 'round these parts; I’ve seen it many times; the cat crouches about eight inches away from the fence, does that odd ass-wiggle thing, then springs almost vertically onto the fence post. There’s a possibility that the leap only takes the cat sufficiently high in free space that it can hook a claw or two into the top of the post and give itself a boost, but that doesn’t appear to be by any means universally the case and it would still represent a leap of over five feet. I think it most likely that these calculations are talking about theoretical ideals that don’t always play out exactly that way in the real world, due to any number of variables and exploits. > [@](#): > > \*\*I am an arrogant SOB, but if I found that all the world’s foremost scientists in a field told me that what I think I saw was impossible I would begin by doubting myself. \*\*Like I said, I might back down if I’d only _thought_ I’d glimpsed it once, but I’ve see it a lot. > [@](#): > > \*\*Remember to take into account what I said about animals pivoting in flight as human high-jumpers do. Can you be sure the cat wasn’t doing the feline equivalent to a frosby flop? \*\* I can’t see how this could be the case, given than a) we’re talking about a standing start; the Fosbury flop usually involves a run-up(doesn’t it?) and b)we’re talking about a domestic cat and a six-foot fence - there’s no way the cat could place its centre of gravity even halfway up the height of the fence without leaving the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/51 "2003-12-22T13:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > What kind of pivot could a cat do to add 2’ to that 3.5’ jump?? It could be similar to the one that a human does to add 3.5’ to a 3.5’ jump I assume. I don’t know how the Frosby flop works, but humans seem to be able to 7 feet using that technique. There is even less doubt that humans can’t exceed 1 metre than there is that cats can’t exceed a metre. Yet we still clear 2 metre hurdles. Well, not me personally but some humans. Jump, pivot centre of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/52 "2003-12-22T13:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > No it doesn’t count because it only mentions an ability to “jump up to 18 to 20 feet from the ground to a tree limb”. It doesn’t mention whether the jump was from a standing start or if it involved scrabbling. No dice sorry. Jesus Christ. It says JUMP. It doesn’t say “scramble”, “climb”, “pole vault” or anything else besides “JUMP”. I give up, **Blake**. You are grasping at theory when the real world proves otherwise. It just comes across as obstinate. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/53 "2003-12-22T13:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a difference between asking for proof of ghosts, and asking for proof that cats can jump fences. 1. No one disputes that cat jump fences. The question is how. 2. There is no difference in your argument from ignorance and their argument form ignorance. None at all. In both cases you have only anecdotal evidence but believe that because I can’t disprove your position that somehow validates it. That is not correct. It is an argument form ignorance and has no place on these boards IMO. > [@](#): > > I think it most likely that these calculations are talking about theoretical ideals that don’t always play out exactly that way in the real world, due to any number of variables and exploits. You could well be right. But to this point all reliable the evidence says that cats can’t jump 6 feet. I hope you will understand if I trust the scientists and remain sceptical of your anecdotes. I too have seen cats jump 6 foot fences, but I couldn’t say exactly how they did it. They may have used their claws to run up the fence. > [@](#): > > the Fosbury flop usually involves a run-up(doesn’t it?) I believe it can be used just as effectively from a standing start. I know this from watching a movie about a college track star and it had a training montage where he learned high jump by practicing by standing against the bar, so take it with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/54 "2003-12-22T13:22:14Z")
The [Fosbury flop](http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/index.asp?id=51662) is a technique whereby the athlete jumps over the bar, arching his/her back in such a way that the centre of gravity (which actually occupies a point in midair somewhere between the athlete’s head feet), passes _below_ the bar, while the athlete’s body passes over it. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/55 "2003-12-22T13:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus Christ. It says JUMP. It doesn’t say “scramble”, “climb”, “pole vault” or anything else besides “JUMP”. That’s’ correct. Jump. a. To spring off the ground or other base by a muscular effort of the legs and feet. b. To move suddenly and in one motion Either of those definitions allows the animal to scramble. What definition are you using? More importantly what definition were the authors using? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/56 "2003-12-22T13:23:27Z")
I’m not talking a pole vault. (I have no idea what this Frosby flip is). I’ve never seen, or heard of, a person standing still and then jumping 7’ straight up. Hurdles are different from the top of a fridge. You watch e person jump over a hurdle, they get a running start, lead with one leg, pivot, have the other leg follow. You watch a cat jump onto a fridge, and it’s stand, wiggle, jump and land on all 4 paws. Usually with sliding, so I don’t think claws would come into play much, heh. Did you put up a cite of whatever pivot would allow a cat from a stand still to land 5-6’ from the floor? I may have missed it? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/57 "2003-12-22T13:26:08Z")
> [@](#): > > the centre of gravity (which actually occupies a point in midair somewhere between the athlete’s head feet), passes below the bar, while the athlete’s body passes over it. So using a similar technique the cat’s claws could have passed over the bird at 6 feet while the cat’s centre of gravity remained well below 6 feet? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/58 "2003-12-22T13:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > **You could well be right. But to this point all reliable the evidence says that cats can’t jump 6 feet. I hope you will understand if I trust the scientists and remain sceptical of your anecdotes. I too have seen cats jump 6 foot fences, but I couldn’t say exactly how they did it. They may have used their claws to run up the fence.** You are a fool. You _simply do not have_ any reliable evidence the cats can’t jump six feet. You don’t actually have _any evidence at all._ You have a general theory, which you believe in, which _conflicts_ with empirical evidence. At which point, any sensible person, and certainly any good scientist, would reject the theory. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/59 "2003-12-22T13:28:16Z")
Well, crap. Y’all post a lot faster than I do, heh. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421/60 "2003-12-22T13:28:31Z")
Great. Now we get to debate the definition of jump. If a puma jumps up to 18 foot tree limb catches it with it’s front claws and scrambles up the rest of the way, that’s still alot more than 3 feet. Unless the puma is 15 feet tall. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-could-i-jump-if-my-legs-were-as-powerful-as-a-house-cats-hind-legs/220421.md?page=4)