# How high do Roman numerals go? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2002, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139 "2002-06-09T21:09:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/1 "2002-06-09T21:09:52Z")
I checked the boards and Cecil’s archives, as well as Google, but nothing that I referenced explained how large numbers are expressed in Roman numeral notation. It seems that the thousands (expressed by the letter **M** ,) is as high as you can go in Roman numerals. While people in ancient times probably never dealt with currency units, census counts or any other application that called for the use of numbers in the millions and beyond, I would think that at least they had a system to express these numbers in theory. ---
**Author:** ![douglips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@douglips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/douglips)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/2 "2002-06-09T21:37:34Z")
Everything you ever wanted to know about roman numerals: [http://www.wilkiecollins.demon.co.uk/roman/intro.htm](http://www.wilkiecollins.demon.co.uk/roman/intro.htm) Excerpt: > [@](#): > > In some forms of Roman numbers, D is sometimes represented by an I followed by a backwards C, a bit like this I ) , and M is represented by a C followed by an I and a backwards C. This is hard to depict in a computer font as they do not contain a backwards C but it can be approximated using parentheses like this ( I ). The derivation of this form seems to be from the use of the deep parentheses to represent larger numbers. Thus ( I ) is 1000, ( ( I ) ) is 10,000 and ( ( ( I ) ) ) is 100,000. > > An alternative way of depicting larger numbers is by putting a horizontal bar over the numeral which multiplies it by 1000. Thus > > ```auto > > _ _ > V = 5000 and X = 10,000. > > ``` > > On a larger scale 3,852,429 can be depicted as > > ```auto > > ________ > MMMDCCCL MMCDXXIX > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Undead\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Undead\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Undead_Dude)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/3 "2002-06-10T02:28:46Z")
I have usually heard the vertical bar thing used for large numbers. So with that, the M with a vertical bar over it is the largest single symbol, representing one million. ---
**Author:** ![JS\_Princeton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JS\_Princeton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JS_Princeton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/4 "2002-06-10T22:23:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Undead Dude \* > \*\*I have usually heard the vertical bar thing used for large numbers. So with that, the M with a vertical bar over it is the largest single symbol, representing one million. \*\* Nah, you can put as many vertical bars over the numeral as you like. Two vertical bars = 100,000 times Three vertical bars = 100,000,000 times and so on. ---
**Author:** ![JS\_Princeton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JS\_Princeton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JS_Princeton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/5 "2002-06-10T22:24:47Z")
oops, that’s 1,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 respectively. OWAGIA (Oh, what a goof I am!) ---
**Author:** ![jawdirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@jawdirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jawdirk)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/6 "2002-06-11T07:49:49Z")
It would be interesting if anyone knew the largest roman numeral recorded before the advent of the decimal system. I wonder if they ever used more than one bar. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/7 "2002-06-11T09:38:23Z")
I can’t imagine why anyone in the Roman Empire would have used more than one bar, unless they were like me as a kid. I have an old elementary school notebook with a half of a page full of 9’s, just so I could see what was the biggest number I could write. The Roman kids had an advantage though—one line is as good as three digits! ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/8 "2002-06-11T13:44:24Z")
It would be a pretty more numbering system that limited how high you could go. The stacking horizontal lines over numbers allow you to extend towards infinity. End of OP. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/9 "2002-06-11T15:49:38Z")
Just to correct two assertations made in the **OP** : the Romans _certainly_ dealt with “currency units” (by which I presume you mean large value exchanges of currency) and censuses. In fact, the word _census_ is Latin: > [@](#): > > _From [Dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=census):_ > Latin census, registration of citizens, from censere, to assess. and, > [@](#): > > In ancient Rome, a count of the citizens and an evaluation of their property for taxation purposes. ---
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/10 "2002-06-11T22:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerowyn \* > \*\*Just to correct two assertations made in the **OP** : the Romans _certainly_ dealt with “currency units” (by which I presume you mean large value exchanges of currency) and censuses. In fact, the word _census_ is Latin:and, \*\* I guess I should have been more clear about this. I know that currency (or monetary) units as well as census-taking have been around since the beginning of civilization. What I meant here is that ancient cultures likely had no need to use very large numbers (i.e. millions and beyond) for these two particular applications that I provided as examples. ---
**Author:** ![Allen\_Parine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Allen\_Parine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allen_Parine)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-high-do-roman-numerals-go/113139/11 "2002-06-12T13:04:26Z")
My _Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary Unabridged_ gives numerical values for many of the letters besides the well-known I, V, X, L, C, D, and M. The letter with the greatest value (without an overbar) is Z = 2000. Some of these alternative letters are called “medieval Roman numerals” (e.g. Z) while some are just Roman numerals (e.g. B = 300). You can also find these numerical attributions online in the [Dictionary of One Letter Words](http://www.blueray.com/dictionary/oneletter/). My question: where in ancient or medieval times were these additional letters used and for what purpose? Some of them, like O = 11, seem rather pointless.