how high should oil prices get for sea shipping to switch to coal? can this realistically happen?

There is a low of good info here,.

On an oil fired merchant steam ship each watch will have a watch officer (a third or second assistant engineer), an oiler, and a fireman. Aa complete black gang crew. Chief, 1st, 2nd two 3rds, three oilers,three firemen, and maybe two wipers plus a possable day third. Total maybe 14 to16.

Go coal now add three to six strokers, and posabbly two more wipers (coal dust to clean.

Coal bunkers take up a lot move volume than oil tanks. Now to be able to transefer that coal requires large equipment taking up more room. which means less cargo. then there is the handling of ash. If not more personel to handle it more hours.

Long time shince I shipped but I believe the Snipes on a modern ship number under 10.

To retro fit a ship. Wow. To convert from diesel to steam would take maybe a year of yard time. the other choice would be to convert the main engines to blast injection (Diesel planed on running his engines on coal). that would mean tearing the engines apart. New heads, new cam shaft, new injectors, less Hp from the same engines. It would never be the smart thing to do.

What about an electric ship? Coal- or nuclear-fired power plants at the points of origin, possibly used to charge interchangeable batteries (since presumably charging fixed batteries would take something like weeks).

I assume that the weight of a battery pack that would be required to power a ship would be significantly lower than the weight of however many tons of diesel fuel or coal would be required. I also assume that an electric motor (or, more likely, several hundred electric motors) would be inherently more efficient and more reliable than either a diesel engine or a coal-fired steam turbine.

That’s a really bad assumption.
The energy density of even the best batteries is far, far lower than Diesel fuel. This is one of the reasons that electric cars aren’t commonplace.

Why would you assume that? One of the practical disadvantages of of electric cars v. comventional gasoline or diesel vehicles is that the energy density of a battery pack is far les than that of a tankfull of fuel, and teh batteries weigh far more. Marine applications would have similar disadvantages, only writ much larger.

ETA: what beowulff said.

To offer some more supporting evidence: If this battery pack idea were feasible I think it would be one of the technologies being experimented with for advanced AIP* plants for coastal submarines. AFAIK none of the AIP boats being built or considered are talking about being electric with external power generation.

Now, the fuel cell plants that are currently in production may have the power density to replace a diesel plant, I don’t know the details of any of those plants, so I can’t speak to them. Having said that, I suspect that what’s acceptable for a relatively inexpensive submarine may well prove to be too much of a capital investment for a cargo hauler. Military ideas of cheap aren’t often shared by civilian accountants.

*Air Independent Propulsion or Plant

Oh, duh. Didn’t even think of that.

What about a hydrogen fuel cell? Plenty of water to work with…

Or wind power…

Odd as it sounds, wind powered ships(sails) may make a comeback before coal does. The technology for sailing has improved quite a bit since steam took over.

A weak solar powered engine would keeps ships moving when the wind is lacking.

Hydrogen fuel cells still require quite a bit of power to seperate the hydrogen from the water. Water is the exhaust, not the fuel.

Hydrogen made by electrolysis of water is far more expensive than current commercial sources of hydrogen, which is made from natural gas. If I owned a ship with a hydrogen fuel cell, why would I buy your expensive fuel when I can get it cheaper elsewhere?

Well, it comes with a lovely set of steak knives.

Is a gasifier setup more efficient than steam power? Besides with some small scale modifications you can still use the diesel engine with both fuels.

In addition to the other disadvantages, coal is dangerous-the dust can explode, and spontaneous combustion can take place in a coal bin. Such incidents happened a lot in the pre-oil age, and quite a few unexplained ship losses were probably caused by coal dust explosions.

You don’t think diesel explodes? That’s how combustion works.

On the subject of steam-to-electric ships (turboelectric), the US Navy played around with that in the twenties:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-038.htm

The whole article is more detailed, but I don’t want to quote enmasse. But note that this was an oil fired ship design, generating electricity to turn the props, not a coal design. I presume using coal would involve more precious ship space and weight, all of which translates to money on a commercial ship.

You have to go to a fair amount of work to get it to explode. You have to vaporize it and get the air vapor mixture hot. It is easier to handle diesel in a way that vapors don’t build up. Dust is a hazard even for things that are not burnt for heat. Dust suppression is a be issue with handling grain.

The modifications would not be small.
Coal does not pump. Cargo space would have to be converted to coal bunkers. Arcameties screws from the new fuel bunkers would have to be installed. Means of handeling the ash would have to be added. and on a diesel large blast injection air compressors would have to be added. The engine would have to be bare boned to change the camshaft. New heads on each cylinder mounted. And there would be much more.

To add some information to the speculation, there were four modern (early 70’s) coal fired ships on the Gladstone - Weipa run in Qld for about 30 years, just retiring. (the River Embley, the River Boyne, the Endeavour River and the Fitzroy River). They were all about 50,000 GRT.

By the end of their life they had crews of 19, which is no more than on oil fired ships. They were very reliable. They had fully automatic engine rooms and were UMS (Unmanned Machinery Space) certified. So much for speculation above.

They were purpose built and yes they did have to have a larger space dedicated to a coal bunker. Their range was short by comparison to oil fired vessels otherwise comparable.

They were built at the time oil prices were high. They were also (very importantly) built in the knowledge they would be servicing ports that (as it happened) were also coal ports so that coal was cheap and available. They needed dedicated bunkering wharves for reasons others have outlined.

So modern efficient coal fired vessels are possible. At least based on what I know they are not as flexible as oil fired vessels. The broader economic questions I will leave to others.