How Hot Do You Have To Cook Beef To Kill 'Mad Cow'?

[chorpler]

TWOTfan, that’s true, if lymph nodes are a danger, then obviously, it is not just neural tissue that is a problem since by definition the lymph nodes are as well.

But I thought that lymph nodes were only dangerous from infected sheep, not infected cows, since the transmissible spongiform diseases spread to a much wider range of tissues in sheep than cows. Is that not so?

[TWOTfan]

chorpler - I do not know. I would like for that to be true!

Here’s a link that references lymph glands and BSE:

http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/eddie.html

[amarone]

*Originally posted by Surreal *
**Normally I don’t like to cook anything beyond medium rare, so it looks like I’ll have to switch to some other type of meat. **

Oh good grief. More people die each year in the US from E. coli than have died in 15 years in the UK from nvCJD. Why haven’t you stopped eating beef because of the E. Coli risk?

And there are 5 times as many deaths each year from each of Listeria and Salmonella as E. Coli. You’re going to have to give everything up.

Statistics.

[chorpler]

amarone, I think the reason people are much more afraid of mad cow disease than they are of E. coli or listeria or salmonella, despite the fact that rationally they should be more afraid of the latter, is that mad cow disease is completely incurable and is a particularly scary way to die, having your brain gradually disintegrate. To most people, that seems much scarier than getting food poisoning.

At least, until they read Robin Cook’s novel Toxin and start worrying about E. coli toxins turning their organs into decaying soup. Then they start fearing E. coli even more than mad cow disease.

[bughunter]

So what has killed and sickened more people?

• BSE from mad cows?

Or,

• Hepatitis A, from fecal-contaminated imported produce?

And which do you hear more panic-inspiring stories about?

Me, I drive too fast on the highways to worry about BSE-stricken beef.

[amarone]

*Originally posted by chorpler *
amarone, I think the reason people are much more afraid of mad cow disease than they are of E. coli or listeria or salmonella, despite the fact that rationally they should be more afraid of the latter, is that mad cow disease is completely incurable and is a particularly scary way to die, having your brain gradually disintegrate. To most people, that seems much scarier than getting food poisoning.

Could well be. Plus people get much more scared of new things: BSE, SARS, AIDS, Terrorism (new to the US), Ebola when there are familiar risks (cancer, heart disease, car crashes) that kill more. Actually, AIDS is a poor example in that it kills millions in Africa. But my “newness” argument applies - you hear much less about AIDS in the US now that it is a “familiar” disease.

[ratatoskK]

Here’s NY Times article on transmission of Mad Cow . Here’s an excerpt:

… if a healthy human or animal eats meat or processed foods contaminated with misfolded proteins, the disease can take hold…
Infectious prions enter the body through the gut and are passed to the brain through lymph and other immune cells. They are found mostly in the brain but can exist for quite some time in peripheral tissue like tonsils, appendixes and lymph nodes in muscle. Misfolded prions have also been identified in white blood cells…

Since lymph nodes and blood are in all kinds of meat, I would think to be absolutely sure you’d have to avoid all kind of beef (not just nerve tissue).

It also says:

Avoid pizza toppings, taco fillings, hot dogs, salami, bologna and other products that contain not only ground beef but beef from machinery that squeezes out bits of meat that cling to the spinal column and other bones. Beef from this advanced meat recovery system is used in many meat products but bits of the spinal column are often not removed.

In a survey conducted in 2002 by the Agriculture Department, products for 34 processing plants that use such machinery, known as an advanced meat recovery system, were tested and 35 percent of them tested positive for central nervous system tissue.

[HomerIU]

In regard to the spread of the disease and the number of reported cases, I would point out that diagnosing this disease is very hard to do and there is a good chance that cases occur that go undiagnosed. To compare it to infection with E Coli or Salmonella is probably not fair for that reason.

       Further, as has been stated, just because you get E. Coli or Salmonella does not mean you will defintely die.  Spongiform encephalopathies are uniformly fatal with no known cure or even treatment to date.  Its not really a fair comparison.

      Also, I know that forms of CJD have been spread via dura mater, which is around but not actually part of the brain.  I guess its a matter of semantics whether you would include this as part of the "nervous tissue" everyone recommends avoiding, but it is tissue that, while in the nervous system, is not made up of neurons and it can spread the disease.  

          Finally, again since the cases are so rare and hard to diagnose I would not assume you definetly can't get the disease from muscle just because no one has ever proven to get the disease from infected non-nervous system beef protein.  At the very least, its worth considering where the beef you are buying is coming from, how its processed, etc. before buying.

[nermal]

Further to HomerIU’s warning, the period which the disease can remain dormant for is unknown. There were cases in the UK where people who were vegetarian for many years developed nvCJD from eating infected meat a long time ago.

So there still exists the possibility that there are large amounts of people who have contracted this disease and will only begin to show symptoms in the future.

[cmkeller]

bughunter:

What about Kosher franks? That’s all I eat anyhow… do Kosher rules permit brains and spinal cords in frankfurter filling?

Absolutely. As long as the blood and the sciatic nerve are removed, the entire rest of the cow is fair game. (In practice, though, there are some cow parts that it’s very hard to remove blood from, and I think the brain is one of them. Possible to do, but not usually worth the cost, unlike, say, liver.) (and usually that sciatic nerve thing means the entire back half of the cow gets written off as well).

[StarvingButStrong]

cmkeller, what’s the reasoning behind the sciatic nerve thing? I mean, why does it need to be removed while all the other zillions of nerves in the animal are (apparently) kosher?
(Just curious.)

[cmkeller]

StarvingButStrong:

cmkeller, what’s the reasoning behind the sciatic nerve thing?

It’s not eaten as a memorial to the fact that Jacob was injured in his sciatic nerve during his fight with the angel. Genesis 32:24-32.

Chaim Mattis Keller

[NaeNae2362]

Actually, you would have to use temperatures of 900 degrees Fahrenheit or more over a period of several hours in order to render the prions unable to make other proteins go wonky!
I like my steak well done, but NOT CREMATED!!

[puzzlegal]

Hi, NaeNae2362. You’ve just replied to a 19 year old post, so i don’t know if any of the posters in it are still around, and interested in the topic.

But welcome to the SDMB. There’s still lots of stuff to discuss.

[Saffer]

There should be a joke about zombies and brain diseases here somewhere …

[naita]

@Saffer

There should be a joke about zombies and brain diseases here somewhere …

I mean … you could have just …

@NaeNae2362

Actually, you would have to use temperatures of 900 degrees Fahrenheit or more over a period of several hours in order to render the prions unable to make other proteins go wonky!

Incidentally this also what’s needed to render zombies safe.