# How important are abortion rights? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2010, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017 "2010-11-09T10:52:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/81 "2010-11-10T01:19:48Z")
Very important for it allows the murder of certain persons for the sake of a mother’s convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/82 "2010-11-10T01:33:03Z")
The discussion of abortion is really complex and very, very important. There are many good arguments on both sides. It is, with gay rights, one of the most important moral issues of our day. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/83 "2010-11-10T01:41:39Z")
It’s really important, but it’s not really complex. My body is mine. My organs are mine. No other person on earth has a claim on my organs that supersedes my will. No further discussion is really warranted, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/84 "2010-11-10T01:44:44Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Very important for it allows the murder of certain persons for the sake of a mother’s convenience. Yet more illustration of why I truly hate the anti-abortion stance. I’m sixteen weeks as of today. My back hurts constantly. I’ve gained two pounds in two weeks. I get dizzy at least once a day and everytime I walk more than a few feet I get winded. Pregnancy is only a minor inconvenience in the minds of those who have not experienced it. If a woman does not to go through with such a difficult task – for whatever reason – that is no one’s business but her own. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/85 "2010-11-10T01:47:34Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Yet more illustration of why I truly hate the anti-abortion stance. > > I’m sixteen weeks as of today. My back hurts constantly. I’ve gained two pounds in two weeks. I get dizzy at least once a day and everytime I walk more than a few feet I get winded. Pregnancy is only a minor inconvenience in the minds of those who have not experienced it. If a woman does not to go through with such a difficult task – for whatever reason – that is no one’s business but her own. Did you want the pregnancy in the first place? Once you have human life nothing other than other human life can supersede his or her right to survival. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/86 "2010-11-10T01:49:38Z")
Why? There are plenty of instances in which both individuals and societies decide to take lives for reasons that have nothing to do with survival. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/87 "2010-11-10T01:50:39Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Why? Same reason why I wouldn’t kill someone just for robbing me. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/88 "2010-11-10T01:52:59Z")
Well, that’s a spectacularly well thought out and nuanced position you’ve got there. I’ll assume you missed my edit. Why is it different than the many other reasons that lives are taken for reasons other than the survival of others? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/89 "2010-11-10T01:53:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To me abortion is a crime against women and against femininity in the extreme. To deceive a woman into thinking that it is best for her to have her own child murdered is beyond contempt and degrades the beauty that all women have. > > That said making it illegal is not the answer, the state never can help anyone, but just provide arbitrary rules that some must follow under threat of punishment while others are exempt. So, you think women are so stupid that they can’t make the decision to have an abortion without being “deceived?” We’ve never had to face the issue, but my wife did graduate work in reproductive physiology, and knows the inside of a rat’s uterus far better than I want to think about. She knows more about the scientific stuff than both of us put together. Your post is insulting both to her and to all women. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/90 "2010-11-10T01:56:03Z")
Heck, it wouldn’t matter if pregnancy was entirely pleasant and only lasted a day or two. I’m not keen on women being forced into the years-long financial commitment of an unwanted child. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/91 "2010-11-10T01:57:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To me abortion is a crime against women and against femininity in the extreme. To deceive a woman into thinking that it is best for her to have her own child murdered is beyond contempt and degrades the beauty that all women have. > > That said making it illegal is not the answer, the state never can help anyone, but just provide arbitrary rules that some must follow under threat of punishment while others are exempt. So should murder not be banned? Should child abuse not be banned? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/92 "2010-11-10T01:57:27Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Did you want the pregnancy in the first place? Once you have human life nothing other than other human life can supersede his or her right to survival. Desperately. But if I did not that is none of your business. YOUR beliefs, religion and morals should have no bearing on a stranger’s uterus. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/93 "2010-11-10T02:00:18Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Desperately. But if I did not that is none of your business. YOUR beliefs, religion and morals should have no bearing on a stranger’s uterus. Then why is murder banned? It is just someone’s sense of morals albeit one shared by the overwhelming majority of civilized human beings. The fact is all crimes are due to someone’s definition of morality (ie murder is wrong, theft is wrong etc.). ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/94 "2010-11-10T02:02:47Z")
Thing is honey, your morals are not, in this instance, shared by the overwhelming majority of civilized human beings. So you’re going to have to do better. Like, actually come up with a legitimate reason for denying women sovereignty over their bodies that’s more convincing than ‘because I said so’. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/95 "2010-11-10T02:04:03Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Thing is honey, your morals are not, in this instance, shared by the overwhelming majority of civilized human beings. Neither was the idea that slavery was immoral or that racism was immoral until quite recently. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/96 "2010-11-10T02:05:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Then why is murder banned? It is just someone’s sense of morals albeit one shared by the overwhelming majority of civilized human beings. The fact is all crimes are due to someone’s definition of morality (ie murder is wrong, theft is wrong etc.). An abortion isn’t murder just because you say so. FYI, I’m Jewish. Judaism does not define abortion as murder: > [@](#): > > [Kosher Sex - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)](http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm) > > Abortion > Jewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother’s life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory. > > An unborn child has the status of “potential human life” until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother’s, because you cannot choose between one human life and another. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/97 "2010-11-10T02:07:32Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Neither was the idea that slavery was immoral or that racism was immoral until quite recently. Slavery is immoral largely because it denies people sovereignty over their bodies. You’d make pregnant women slaves? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/98 "2010-11-10T02:12:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Then why is murder banned? Because the murdered person doesn’t want to be killed. The fetus on the other hand doesn’t want anything; there’s no one there to care if they are killed. You can’t murder a mindless fetus any more than you can murder a tomato. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/99 "2010-11-10T02:13:47Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Slavery is immoral largely because it denies people sovereignty over their bodies. > > You’d make pregnant women slaves? So is abortion since it doesn’t permit fetuses to have soverignty over their bodies > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because the murdered person doesn’t want to be killed. The fetus on the other hand doesn’t want anything; there’s no one there to care if they are killed. You can’t murder a mindless fetus any more than you can murder a tomato. What about murdering a mentally retarded person or someone in a coma? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017/100 "2010-11-10T02:16:08Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > So is abortion since it doesn’t permit fetuses to have soverignty over their bodies Sure it does. I’m evicting it from MY body, and it can live or not as it’s able. Seriously, you get how this pregnancy thing works, right? Have your parents explained that yet? Please explain to me why you feel that the fetus has a right to hang out in my uterus against my will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-are-abortion-rights/560017.md?page=6)