How important is glucose flattening?

A quick update. Tomorrow marks the end of my first week wearing a CGM. I established a glucose level baseline over the first few days based on my current eating habits. I plan to do testing over a four week period, giving me ample time to test something multiple times. Note this is not a rigorous double-blind study, so don’t expect that kind of output.

Over the next three weeks, I will continue to add and remove specific eating hacks and foods to see how they impact my blood glucose. This slow and tedious process has already begun, and I should have something to report back over the next few days. Unfortunately, there is so much variability in my blood glucose activity; it can be hard to tell if something is causing a response, and because of this, I will be doing the tests multiple times to see if I can reproduce whatever result I get.

I also realize this information only pertains to me, and I’m not suggesting anyone make changes to their eating habits based on what works or doesn’t work for me. As my PCP told me when we met before starting, “This isn’t life or death… it’s just a science experiment.” While I agree with him, if I can validate some of these hacks and learn what foods cause high blood sugar spikes for me, I see value in doing it. Whether it will make any tangible difference to my health or longevity is something we can debate when it’s all said and done.

Every patient is an experiment with an N of 1 and no control group.

CGM Week 1:

As promised, here’s the first update on my four-week CGM adventure. (Sorry for the length, but there was a lot to cover.) The goal is to figure out what foods cause large glucose spikes so I can avoid them and decrease my chances of having metabolic syndrome. I also would like to lower my fasting blood glucose level, but that may not be possible.

I created a baseline for the first three days based on my current eating habits.Then, I started using glucose-flattening hacks and adding certain foods to my diet to see how they impacted my glucose levels. I wanted to keep the average of my spikes below 160 mg/dl since I’d read that an average above 180 mg/ml for a long period of time can lead to metabolic syndrome. The average of my glucose spikes in Week 1 was 141 mg/dl, far below 180.

I had moved from a strict Keto diet to a Low-Carb diet to a Moderate-Carb diet and had started introducing complex carbohydrates and starches like whole wheat bread, brown rice, and potatoes while still avoiding sugar. During baseline testing, I found that while introducing some complex carbs, I could keep my glucose spikes below 150 mg/dl, which I considered reasonably healthy. My fasting glucose, however, remained stubbornly at 100 mg/dl. While this alone might lead to a prediabetes diagnosis, my A1C is low, and I don’t have any other insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome symptoms. Some people have high fasting blood glucose due to heredity.

Why do I care? The purported benefits of lower glucose spikes are fewer cravings and less hunger, which helps with weight management, less inflammation, a healthier heart and brain, and reduced risk of Alzheimer’s Disease, which runs in my family, cancer, and fatty liver disease.

The six glucose-flattening hacks include eating savory breakfasts, consuming meals in a particular order, eating whole fruit not juiced or dried, “clothing” your carbs with protein, fat, or fiber, walking for 15 minutes after a meal, and never eating dessert on an empty stomach. Following these hacks can supposedly lower blood glucose spikes by up to 75%. I wanted to see if any of these worked for me.

Some Week 1 Insights:

A sugary drink caused my most significant glucose spike. I could have predicted this, but when I had two glasses of a restaurant drink containing 51g of sugar each, my glucose spiked quickly to 188 mg/dl, the highest level I recorded. This was a 71 mg/dl increase from my baseline within just a few minutes. This wasn’t surprising since soluble sugar can quickly enter your bloodstream. The good news is that the spike began to drop shortly after it peaked.I know most sugars cause significant blood sugar spikes, but I was surprised by how sensitive I was to any form of sugar. I also had a significant spike after I ate a chocolate mousse dessert with 25g of added sugar. My blood glucose spiked 69 mg/dl to 149 mg/dl and stayed high for almost two hours before returning to normal.

Complex carbs are okay in limited quantities. I was pleased to learn I can eat some complex carbs without causing a significant spike. So far, I’ve tested brown rice, whole wheat bread, sweet potatoes, and russet potatoes, and as long as I keep the amount low, for example, ½ cup of brown rice or ½ of a russet of sweet potato, I don’t get a significant spike. I even ate a bowl of old-fashioned oatmeal and only saw a small spike. I haven’t tried beans, lentils, white rice, or pasta. Lots of testing to do in this area.

Eating fruit can cause a significant spike. An apple, a pear, and most berries don’t cause a significant spike, presumably because of the fiber that goes along with them, but unexpectedly, eating plums did cause a significant spike even though they are considered a low glycemic fruit, and when I ate a ripe banana, that created the second-largest spike of the week at 177 mg/dl. Bananas are considered starchy fruit when they are green and sugary fruit when they are ripe. When I tried a large nectarine, the spike was not as big as the one I got from the plums or bananas, so every fruit may differ.

Glucose Flattening Hack #1 - Eat a Savory Breakfast. I gave up eating carbs and sugar for breakfast when I started my Keto diet and never really returned. I did, though, introduce old-fashioned rolled oatmeal, not instant, into my breakfast to see its effect. I also tried a slice of whole wheat bread with sugar-free jam. Neither of those seems to cause a big spike when eaten in moderation.

Glucose Flattening Hack #2 – Food Order. Supposedly, eating carbs last in a meal reduces the spike you get because your body can’t process carbs as quickly when it is processing proteins and fats. During my testing, I’ve put my carbs at the meals’ beginning, middle, and end to see if it made any difference. So far, I haven’t seen much of a difference. I will continue to test this until I’m convinced it either does or doesn’t make a difference.

Glucose Flattening Hack #3 - Whole Fruit Only. Since I no longer drink fruit juice or eat dried fruit, I didn’t really want to test this. Fruit juice is liquid sugar; dried fruit is highly concentrated and often has added sugar. I expect these to spike high and so I already avoid them. However, I will continue to eat whole fruit, primarily apples, pears, and berries. Grapes and ripe bananas have a lot of sugar, so I avoid them.

Glucose Flattening Hack #4 – Don’t Eat Naked Carbs. The idea is to add protein, fiber, or fat to carbs and never eat them alone or “naked.” I haven’t had the opportunity to test this one yet, but I plan to.

Glucose Flattening Hack #5 – Walk After A Meal. This is the “passegiata” after lunch and dinner made famous by Italians. I started doing this six months ago for dinner and have since added it for breakfast and even lunch on my days off. I hike daily with my dog and do 20 minutes on the treadmill following meals. My total walking amounts to ~15,000 steps or about 6 miles per day, and I can see its effect on the blood sugar. Not surprisingly, either walking with your dog or walking right after a meal flattens the spike since your muscles are soaking up as much glucose as possible. This was one of the glucose-flattening hacks that appeared to work for me.

Glucose Flattening Hack #6 – No Dessert on an Empty Stomach. Shortly before bedtime one night, I had a 250 kcal chocolate mousse dessert, and my blood sugar spiked to 149 mg/dl. I wasn’t surprised and wasn’t too concerned about it since it didn’t reach 160 or 180 mg/dl. However, it could go much higher if I try a different sugary treat, so more testing to follow.

I plan to keep testing and reporting when I have exciting results to share.

Thanks! That’s really interesting. I’ve been toying with getting a glucose meter and some testing strips and exploring my own reaction to various foods. I’m not super likely to actually do it, though. So I’m vicariously enjoying your experience.

To clarify @dolphinboy, you currently do not have a diagnosis of diabetes or even prediabetes? You are a “worried well”?

If so …

What would your response be if something that is considered overall healthy gave you a less flat curve? Defer to the curve or do the healthy behavior anyway?

I’m not dolphinboy, but i would weigh evidence of what something did to me more highly than whether something is “generally assumed to be healthy”. If it were something like exercise, which has many benefits unrelated to blood sugar, and it didn’t cause a really crazy spike, I’d do it anyway. But if it were something that was supposed to be good for my blood sugar, like eating complex carbohydrates, and the blood sugar monitor said otherwise, I’d probably trust the blood sugar monitor.

Yes exercise was the immediate example I was thinking about. I would be completely unsurprised to discover that with intense exercise I triggered a blood sugar spike followed by a fairly rapid drop, maybe slightly hypo. Not flat at all.

And if I was diabetic I might give a shit. But not diabetic? The evidence for benefits from exercise in many ways is overwhelming. The evidence for flatter glucose curve being of any benefit in someone without diabetes? Not so overwhelming.

Extending to complex carbs. The benefits are broad, beyond the shape of a glucose curve. Big. Proven.

To the degree that the advice overlaps with what is healthy or even neutral otherwise? Wonderful. But when behaviors with solid evidence for benefit conflict then to me solid evidence behaviors prevail.

I guess I misunderstood you, then, because I don’t read:

to mean

Also, are there really big broad proven benefits to eating complex carbohydrates? I mean, most people with a decent diet are going to do that, because it’s a really common cheap nutrient that it’s hard to poison yourself with. But I know enough people who seem to be maintaining good health on keto-type diets, where I think they must be substituting healthy fats for complex carbs, that I’m dubious.

Yes.

For long term health nutritional patterns that include complex carbohydrates, such as legumes, whole grains, seeds, and of course various vegetables and fruits, have overwhelmingly solid evidence: overall healthy. Pretty much every dietary pattern associated with long life includes lots of them. As solid as exercise and social connections.

Cheaper and widely available, to the point of hard to avoid, is simple carbs. Refined flours, sugars, so on.

Yes, I suppose I am a “worried well”, but I do have a fasting glucose problem. My PCP isn’t worried about my high fasting glucose because my HbA1c is fine (5.1%), but then, why is my fasting glucose elevated? BTW, my goal isn’t to eliminate blood glucose spikes entirely, if that is even possible. Glucose spikes are a normal part of metabolism. What is worrisome is someone with frequent large spikes that often lead to Insulin Resistance (IR). Fortunately, my testing shows that’s not the case with me. I can force myself to have a huge glucose spike, but normally that doesn’t happen.

My underlying worry is that my high (>100 mg/dl) fasting glucose is a sign of IR, which is associated with Metabolic Syndrome, and which in turn can lead to cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, kidney disease, or Alzheimer’s Disease (AD). AD runs in my family and I have two copies of the APOE e4 allele which makes me much more likely to get it than most people. My HOMA-IR is 2.1, while the healthy range is 0.5 to 1.4 and above 1.9 indicates early IR. Based on that I have early IR, so now is the time to reverse it. Fewer and smaller glucose spikes mean less insulin being secreted, which leads to a reduction in IR for most people. Of course my monitoring hasn’t shown any reduction yet… it can take years. My fasting insulin is 8.4, and the normal range is 5.0, but ideally it should be closer to 3.0, so that’s high too. If I can make my glucose spikes flatter, my fasting glucose and insulin should both go down.

As far as what would I do if my test results conflicted with common medical wisdom, as puzzlegal surmised, I would lean toward what my body is telling me, even if that’s not backed by scientific studies. The main reason being that every body is different, and common wisdom may work for 80% of the population, but the other 20% maybe should be doing something different. I also believe that everyone can benefit from flatter glucose spikes. Will that add 10 years to your life? Not likely, but overtaxing your pancreas will almost certainly lead to problems, so why not change your eating habits rather than chance it?

I’ve already run into a conflict with my dietician. She wants to keep my carbs at 35% of my total calories. From my testing I know that eating that many carbs causes higher than normal glucose spikes. It also causes me to gain weight, regardless of how much I exercise. I know that living a permanent “low carb life” isn’t the healthiest way to live, but I believe keeping my weight down is a very good thing for my overall health.

I’m trying to find a middle ground that’s closer to “moderate carbs” versus “low carbs”, and I’m checking to see if I there are carbs I can routinely eat that won’t increase my weight. I know that sugary carbs are much worse for me than starchy carbs, so eating brown rice works better for me than eating a piece of fruit, or cake. As I continue to adjust my diet I can see how various carbs impacts my blood sugar and my weight at the same time. I’ve found a strong correlation between the amount of carbs I eat and how it effects my weight. More on that later.

Vegetables and fruits are all over the map, with some having mostly sugar, and some having few carbs of any sort. Seeds? You mean like nuts? They are often recommended on a keto diet.

Yeah, i guess the legumes and while grains tend to have a lot of complex carbs. I don’t think that’s enough to prove that “complex carbohydrates” are important for health. I think what we’ve really seen is that whole foods, especially plant-based whole foods, are good for most people’s health. I’m pretty sure you could go grain-free and be healthy.

Okay, I am admittedly out of my field of expertise here, but what I can find (see table 4 here)a value of 2.25 on HOMA-IR only has a specificity of 0.7? This source calls up to 2.5 normal.

And [this (Identifying prediabetes using fasting insulin levels - PubMed) would declare your fasting insulin normal too?

Not your doctor, but your doctor, who knows these results, is not worried by them.

FWIW I have also had FBG come in at 100 to 108 on two occasions separated by several years. HgbA1c also fine. My doctor also not worried.

My own speculation has been something similar to the Dawn phenomenon, that I drop a bit low in the morning and by the time I get to the blood draw I’ve had some counter regulatory impacts. For me I suspect my body is expecting me to be exercising then since I do most days.

Out of curiosity what does your monitor tell you is happening in the early am hours?

@puzzlegal a plant forward whole food diet will usually virtually always be high in complex carbs. Again though, every nutritional pattern associated with long healthspan is high in complex carbs. That does not prove that a specific different pattern could not prove also to be, but there is no evidence of such. I personally would eat vegetables high in natural (not added) sugar happily as a great health choice and yummy. A banana? Healthy even if it disrupts my glucose curve. For lots of reasons!

If not having symptoms it may be wise to avoid worrying about blood sugar spikes due to exercise; they are supposed to occur. I would also be hesitant to restrict fruit and vegetable intake but of course you should do what you deem best.

From about midnight to 6 am my glucose consistently hovers between 95 and 101 mg/dl. At about 6:30 the dawn phenomena kicks in and it rises to 114 or 115 mg/dl. I usually get up by 7 am and then go for a 45 minute hike with my dog at around 7:30 am.

I’ve requested copies of my labs from my previous doctor to see if my fasting glucose was always this high, and I just never noticed it. I don’t expect to get them sent to me for a few weeks. :frowning:

@dolphinboy , if your doctor isn’t worried, why are you using a continuous blood sugar monitor, and how did you even get it?

I think it’s a reasonable idea even if the doctor is unconcerned.

I’m using a Constant Glucose Monitor so I can adjust my eating in order to lower/flatten my blood glucose spikes. I could be having daily massive glucose spikes, which are considered unhealthy, and not know it since I can’t feel it when it happens. Also, I noticed that my fasting blood glucose level was higher than it should be and I was curious why, even if my doctor wasn’t concerned about it. Anyone can but a CGM either online or at your local drug store. You can get them without a prescription, at least in my state.

When I met with my doctor, whom I like very much, and pointed out my high fasting glucose level, he had no explanation for it since my HbA1c wasn’t high, which would have pointed to prediabetes. Since he couldn’t come up with a theory I told him I was thinking about getting a CGM so I could see what my blood glucose was doing throughout the day. He thought that was a good idea, but explained that my insurance wouldn’t pay for it since I wasn’t prediabetic. When I told him I was happy to pay for it myself, he seemed surprised that I would be willing to do that and asked if I would share the data with him, which I of course agreed to. In hindsight I think he should have offered me a glucose tolerance test since that would have nailed down whether my insulin was doing its job, but he didn’t. Perhaps I’ll suggest it to him the next time I see him.

FWIW I don’t see that pattern as consistent with insulin resistance at all. It is pretty much what I hypothesize mine is: fine fasting, then kicking up in anticipation of regular exercise.

Why? What am I (and his doctor) missing?

I get that neither FBG or HgbA1c is foolproof (they vary with ethnicity for sensitivity and specificity for example) but knowing he his fine all through the night?

Gathering data is fine in isolation. We all love Science! around here. I sure do.

If the OP is developing an obsession about his fully normal glucose levels that in itself could be unhealthy even before he begins acting on that obsession via unneeded diet interventions.

As a true diabetic myself, but one well-controlled by diet, I suppose what I’d say is that as long as the OP is mentally prepared to discover that there’s nothing he should do to alter his diet or other behaviors he’s still doing science. Conversely, if he has decided a priori that he’s gotta change something, well, he’s now feeding an obsession. Perhaps a harmless foible, perhaps the thin edge of a life-altering wedge, and not in a good way.

He knows; we don’t.