# How important is it for all well-educated people to know and believe Theory of Evolution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816 "2015-06-18T02:06:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/1 "2015-06-18T02:06:06Z")
I’ve wondered about this from time to time over they years. Now, [this nearby thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=759473) inspires me to put the question to The Dope. (Stop me if we’ve done this already.) How essential is it, really, for everyone (meaning, educated first-world people in particular) to all know, understand, and believe the Theory of Evolution and other similar controversial stuff (like Age of Earth). If I were a college-level biology prof, I think I would argue that the Theory of Evolution is the sort of thing that all educated people ought to know and understand. But I _don’t_ see a specific need for everyone to _believe_ it. If we have some deeply fundamentalist believers of Abrahamic religions who seriously believe the Bible is literal truth (six day creation and all the rest), is there any real reason for anybody else to care? I want students to learn scientific thought, in general, critical thinking, the various arguments for Evolution (and arguments agains, if they must), and how to evaluate them, how to accept plausible arguments (including Biblical text, if that is a fundamental premise the student lives by); how to recognize and reject fallacious arguments, and so on. When all is said and done, I don’t care what they actually believe. I saw a Jehovah’s Witness essay once that refuted evolution with this blatantly brain-damaged argument (paraphrased since it was years ago and I don’t have the actual exact text): _Of course evolution if non-sense! Who ever saw a bird turn into a fish, or a fish turn into a bird? Did you ever see such a thing? Of course not._ I want students to be understand the Theory well enough to see what’s wrong with arguments like this. If they want to argue for evolution, fine (not necessarily in my bio class), but at least, try to make some good arguments if you can find any. Anyone care to discuss/debate this? (In my next post, I’ll mention a spin-off to this idea, about how students should be tested.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/2 "2015-06-18T02:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > How essential is it, really, for everyone (meaning, educated first-world people in particular) to all know, understand, and believe the Theory of Evolution and other similar controversial stuff (like Age of Earth). It’s important for a well educated person who wants to have a good basic understanding of science and the scientific method to understand the theory, at least the basics (seriously, there are tons of YouTube videos that do a good job of explaining it, if you don’t want to read up). Belief is not really necessary. > [@](#): > > If I were a college-level biology prof, I think I would argue that the Theory of Evolution is the sort of thing that all educated people ought to know and understand. But I don’t see a specific need for everyone to believe it. If we have some deeply fundamentalist believers of Abrahamic religions who seriously believe the Bible is literal truth (six day creation and all the rest), is there any real reason for anybody else to care? Like I said, belief isn’t necessary. Understanding is, if one wants to be knowledgeable and well rounded. If it’s not a subject that interests someone then I guess a basic understanding of the theory is all that’s necessary, but I think that the basics ARE necessary if one wants to have a science based and educated outlook. Personally, I find the subject pretty interesting so I’ve done a bit more than just the basics, but I can understand that not everyone cares about the stuff I find interesting. > [@](#): > > I want students to be understand the Theory well enough to see what’s wrong with arguments like this. If they want to argue for evolution, fine (not necessarily in my bio class), but at least, try to make some good arguments if you can find any. Agreed. And I think that people should understand the basics enough to be able to field this question or at least understand why it’s wrong and a diversion. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/3 "2015-06-18T02:12:06Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I want students to learn scientific thought, in general, critical thinking, the various arguments for Evolution (and arguments agains, if they must), and how to evaluate them, how to accept plausible arguments (including Biblical text, if that is a fundamental premise the student lives by); how to recognize and reject fallacious arguments, and so on. When all is said and done, I don’t care what they actually believe. How are they demonstrating that they can evaluate arguments, recognize and reject fallacious arguments, and employ critical thinking if they can’t figure out something that’s so scientifically uncontroversial as evolution? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/4 "2015-06-18T02:14:53Z")
Now, suppose we have, say, some Jehovah’s Witnesses in my class. I’m all for respecting diversity and people’s religious preferences, even kooky ones like JW up to the point where they begin trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us (like, demanding that evolution not be taught, or be taught in parallel with “Creation Science”). And I understand that seriously devout JW’s are adamant about holding true to their beliefs. They make a big deal about how many of them died in the Holocaust because of it, just as Jews have died in various pogroms for holding fast to their faith. (Daniel’s friends; Maccabees; Inquisition) So: Should I put a question on an exam like: > [@](#): > > Human beings and apes descended from primitive lemur-like species: True / False ? Of course, any attentive student, JW or otherwise, _knows_ what answer I want. A devout JW would be on the spot: Give the answer he knows I’m looking for and risk his soul to be damned? Or stick to his guns, answer False, and flunk the class? A variation of this question came up in the Trigger Warnings thread. **vivalostwages** says a student who does that is perfectly free to flunk her class. My preference: Don’t ask questions like that. Instead, ask: > [@](#): > > According to the theory of evolution, human beings and apes descended from primitive lemur-like species: True / False ? This questions tests whether the student knows something about the theory, without demanding that the student profess to believing it. I’m happy enough with that. Comment? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/5 "2015-06-18T02:20:12Z")
[QUOTE=Senegoid] Of course, any attentive student, JW or otherwise, knows what answer I want. A devout JW would be on the spot: Give the answer he knows I’m looking for and risk his soul to be damned? Or stick to his guns, answer False, and flunk the class? [/QUOTE] Well, my answer to this is that your theoretical JW shouldn’t be in that class if s/he isn’t there to learn. So, if they already know the answer (in their own mind) then what is the point of education or learning? And if they ARE there to learn, then it’s a no brainer. From the perspective of the teacher, a wrong answer is a wrong answer, so if they are using faith based methodologies then they flunk unless they are willing to fake it so they make it. My suggestion is, before giving up on them, have them read Demon Haunted World and do an essay on it first. If they STILL persist and aren’t even willing to give the subject serious thought then flunk them out and advise them not to take scientific courses in the future. Even trying to engage them would only disrupt the class and hurt the other students, at least some of them who might get something out of it all. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/6 "2015-06-18T02:24:14Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How are they demonstrating that they can evaluate arguments, recognize and reject fallacious arguments, and employ critical thinking if they can’t figure out something that’s so scientifically uncontroversial as evolution? Good question, and an obvious counter argument. Evolution of so clearly proven true, that any rational student, presented with the facts, has _no choice_ but to accept it. Right? I’m not entirely convinced. Religious views, based on some ancient barely-intelligible holy text, are a way of understanding Life, the Universe, and Everything that is largely or wholly orthogonal to Scientific Thought. It’s like basing the whole of knowledge on an entirely separate set of premises, leading to wholly different conclusions. And there are some lines of interpretation that allow Biblical Creation to be reconciled with evolution. One line is that the Bible isn’t to be taken all that literally – The idea that “Six Days” really means “Six Ages” or something like that. The other popular line is that evolution may look like random mutations to the occasional gene here and there, but maybe there’s actually a God up there pulling the strings. Why should He bother working supernatural miracles when He has perfectly natural processes to work with? What, it’s so slow? God has plenty of time. Those are plausible sorts of critical thinking, as opposed to the “fish to birds” argument. (Yes, I really saw that argument in a JW tract once.) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/7 "2015-06-18T02:26:26Z")
And furthermore: If I take a few minutes of a lecture to discuss the sorts of ideas in Post #6, am I guilty to that horrific blasphemy of . . . [gasp!]_Teaching The Controversy_ ?[/gasp] ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/8 "2015-06-18T02:29:41Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > How essential is it, really, for everyone (meaning, educated first-world people in particular) to all know, understand, and believe the Theory of Evolution and other similar controversial stuff (like Age of Earth). I wonder too. What does it hurt if an average educated layman doesn’t really believe that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun, or that matter is made of atoms? (This is not a rhetorical question; I’m genuinely not sure what the answer is.) > [@](#): > > If I were a college-level biology prof, I think I would argue that the Theory of Evolution is the sort of thing that all educated people ought to know and understand. I don’t know whether this is just a meaningless nitpick or not, but my understanding is that “_the_ Theory of Evolution” is an oversimplification/generalization. There’s more than one theory involved, and some of them (e.g. Lamarckianism) are no longer accepted by scientists. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/9 "2015-06-18T02:36:33Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If I were a college-level biology prof, I think I would argue that the Theory of Evolution is the sort of thing that all educated people ought to know and understand. But I _don’t_ see a specific need for everyone to _believe_ it. I wondered about that in the past, but a recent documentary on evolution shows good examples of the progress and applications that the theory is giving to medicine. What it showed me is that there is indeed a need to accept the theory because if you are in medicine ignoring evolution would close many doors that could had helped you find new treatments or avenues for research and prevention of disease. > **[What Darwin Never Knew — NOVA | PBS](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/darwin-never-knew.html)** > > One hundred and fifty years later, scientists decode nature's greatest mysteries—a two-hour special. > [@](#): > > Hansell Stedman is a dedicated athlete and a medical doctor. He never imagined he would come up with an answer to a profound evolutionary mystery. He has devoted his career to trying to cure muscular dystrophy, a distressing and sometimes fatal degenerative disease. His quest is very personal. > > … > > CHRIS WALSH (Children’s Hospital Boston): I never thought that I’d be studying evolution. I’m a neurologist, interested in the brain and kids with neurological problems. And no one was more surprised than us to find that the study of kids with disabilities would lead us into these fascinating evolutionary questions. > > … > > NARRATOR: As we celebrate the 200th birthday of Charles Darwin and the 150th anniversary of his great work, there is still much more to understand about how the endless forms of nature have arisen. > > And in rising to that challenge, it is likely that we will continue to advance medicine and come to a better understanding of ourselves as well. If one of those doctors or researchers had dismissed evolution a very key piece of research would had been missed, I wonder how many times that took place in the past and in the present for many evolution deniers, specially in the USA. I also do think that many patients would also ignore many treatments if they are wilfully ignorant of evolution. More than one science commentator has noticed that among anti vaccine people there is a good number of anti evolution people too. > **[Well look who's anti-evolution as well as anti-vaccine and anti-medicine... |...](https://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/10/23/well-look-whos-anti-evolution-as-well-as-anti-vaccine-and-anti-medicine)** > > One of the things that I've noticed over the last (nearly) nine years blogging about pseudocience, quackery, and conspiracy theories is that a person who believes in one form of woo has a tendency to believe in other forms of woo. You've probably... ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/10 "2015-06-18T02:44:49Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I’m not entirely convinced. Religious views, based on some ancient barely-intelligible holy text, are a way of understanding Life, the Universe, and Everything that is largely or wholly orthogonal to Scientific Thought. It’s like basing the whole of knowledge on an entirely separate set of premises, leading to wholly different conclusions. If it’s orthogonal, why is it contradictory? That doesn’t make sense. And yes, plenty of traditions say there is no contradiction. I have no issue if someone says there is no contradiction. But in what way can we say “this person identifies valid arguments and identifies goofy ones… and chooses the goofy ones.” Isn’t what the person believes the very best way to determine how he thinks? If you claim you want to aid thinking, demonstrating where the thinking leads is important. If you only want someone to parrot facts, then the belief doesn’t matter. In college, I was a lit major. You could make any argument you wanted in a paper, you just had to defend and support it. The defending it and supporting it part is the part where you show you understand how to think and how to write. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/11 "2015-06-18T02:49:11Z")
Your argument, **GIGObuster** , really means that only people in certain lines of work need to understand evolution, or other scientific principles. Certainly, anyone in medical research needs to be highly knowledgeable about biology, and evolution is a significant part of that. Similarly, my brother – a Ph.D.-level math person – has argued that it’s not really important for everyone to learn Calculus. Only a small number of people – those in STEM fields mainly – will really ever have any need to know any calculus. How about all the people doing front-line work in restaurants, hotels, retails stores? How about managers in those kinds of businesses? What about sports and entertainment celebrities and other employees? What about even higher-level workers, like financial managers, corporate vice-presidents (in non-STEM-related companies), bankers, soldiers, sailors, tinkers, and tailors? There are zillions of jobs and professions and only a in a relative few of them would it matter if one knows or believes anything about evolution or the age of the earth. I’m sure that anyone interested enough in a field like medical research would take enough related classes and come to understand that evolution is real, and important enough to believe it, if he didn’t already. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/12 "2015-06-18T02:51:43Z")
I remembered too that Agriculture and Conservation are also areas were ignoring evolution would be like riding a canoe without a paddle. Here is a good source for examples on those areas and more in medicine: [http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic\_id=47](http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=47) > [@](#): > > How does evolution impact my life? > > Relevance of evolution: Agriculture > Explore just a few of the many cases in which evolutionary theory helps us secure and improve the world’s crops. Genetic diversity, disease resistance and pest control are highlighted. > > Relevance of evolution: Conservation > Explore just a few of the many cases in which evolutionary theory helps us form conservation strategies. > > Relevance of evolution: Medicine > Explore just a few of the many cases in which evolutionary theory helps us understand and treat disease. Bacterial infections, HIV, and Huntington’s disease are highlighted. > > From the origin of life to the future of biotech: The work of Andy Ellington > This research profile examines how scientist Andy Ellington has co-opted the power of artificial selection to construct new, useful molecules in his lab. The results of his work could help protect us from terrorist attacks and fight HIV and cancer. > > Evolutionary biology: Technology for the 21st century Advanced > The evolutionary biologist Jim Bull gives his perspective on how evolution matters to society today: from producing polio vaccines to solving tabloid-style crimes. > This article appears at [ActionBioscience.org](http://ActionBioscience.org). > > Evo in the news: Better biofuels through evolution > This news brief from April 2009 describes how synthetic biologists are using the process of directed evolution to improve the efficiency of biofuel production. That and much more on the link. I also have to mention that in the area of Artificial intelligence some of the new advances made there also use the theory. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/13 "2015-06-18T02:57:00Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Your argument, **GIGObuster** , really means that only people in certain lines of work need to understand evolution, or other scientific principles. Certainly, anyone in medical research needs to be highly knowledgeable about biology, and evolution is a significant part of that. Not really, virtually all the people that you think that have no reason to learn about it will be patients some day, what they decide to follow does influence the treatments that are developed **or not**. And as recent fights about teaching the controversy shows the ones that ignore evolution can toss a lot of monkey wrenches into our educational system. There is a lot of young people out there that were denied or had a lot of doors closed because of their ideology. And as I mentioned in my previous post you are also ignoring agriculture, conservation and many other fields. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/14 "2015-06-18T03:00:05Z")
There is also the issue that ignorance in evolution can bite us in many different ways. > **[What's the harm in denying evolution?](http://whatstheharm.net/evolutiondenial.html)** > > These are stories of people who have been harmed by not thinking critically about evolution denial. This includes deaths, injuries, hospitalizations, major financial loss and other damages. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/15 "2015-06-18T03:03:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If it’s orthogonal, why is it contradictory? That doesn’t make sense. > > And yes, plenty of traditions say there is no contradiction. I have no issue if someone says there is no contradiction. But in what way can we say “this person identifies valid arguments and identifies goofy ones… and chooses the goofy ones.” Isn’t what the person believes the very best way to determine how he thinks? If you claim you want to aid thinking, demonstrating where the thinking leads is important. If you only want someone to parrot facts, then the belief doesn’t matter. Consider the two proposed test questions I gave in Post #4. Which one do you think asks the student to just parrot facts? Both of them? (Granted, to keep my argument simple, I chose over-simplified True/False questions.) My point was, I would try to ask questions (no doubt more complicated and in-depth than that) that would probe a student’s understanding of the subject, yet without forcing the student to profess to actually believe it. Now, if a student is a die-hard YEC Ken Ham type, I’d say that sort of student really _can’t_ tell a reasonable argument from a goofy one. And if that student can’t or won’t learn at least that, they that student probably will fail, or maybe scrape by with a C. > [@](#): > > In college, I was a lit major. You could make any argument you wanted in a paper, you just had to defend and support it. The defending it and supporting it part is the part where you show you understand how to think and how to write. I admit, my attitude is largely from the STEM point-of-view, where it’s more clear-cut what’s scientifically right and wrong. So if I were teaching bio, I wouldn’t be quite so open to students arguing _anything_ they believe (YEC, whatever). I’d be asking, for example, for papers or other assignments that deal with actual scientific knowledge, evolution included. If they can do that fairly well, then I take that as evidence that they know and understand (or are learning) the right stuff. If the student really adamantly rejects the science in favor of really goofy stuff, they probably won’t do a good job of assignments like that. But that’s not the same as demanding that a student flat-out profess to believe in evolution and old-earth science. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/16 "2015-06-18T03:08:42Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > There are zillions of jobs and professions and only a in a relative few of them would it matter if one knows or believes anything about evolution or the age of the earth. I’m sure that anyone interested enough in a field like medical research would take enough related classes and come to understand that evolution is real, and important enough to believe it, if he didn’t already. I have to comment something here: yes, I have to stop you as you requested 🙂 because I have also heard this excuse too many times before and also coming from a lot of religious people. Your excuse is what Jefferson worried about not having an educated citizenly, it leads to an unhealthy democracy. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/17 "2015-06-18T03:09:56Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Consider the two proposed test questions I gave in Post #4. Which one do you think asks the student to just parrot facts? Both of them? (Granted, to keep my argument simple, I chose over-simplified True/False questions.) Yes, both of them. You said you want to teach how to recognize good arguments, but if you aren’t judging the thinking, how do you know that’s what you’re teaching? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/18 "2015-06-18T03:16:57Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > And furthermore: If I take a few minutes of a lecture to discuss the sorts of ideas in Post #6, am I guilty to that horrific blasphemy of . . . > > [gasp!]_Teaching The Controversy_ ?[/gasp] In a science class? What you would be guilty of is pandering to religionists and wasting the precious time of those that are there to learn _science_. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/19 "2015-06-18T03:24:34Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I’d be asking, for example, for papers or other assignments that deal with actual scientific knowledge, evolution included. If they can do that fairly well, then I take that as evidence that they know and understand (or are learning) the right stuff. If the student really adamantly rejects the science in favor of really goofy stuff, they probably won’t do a good job of assignments like that. > > But that’s not the same as demanding that a student flat-out profess to believe in evolution and old-earth science. And I do not think that should be a requirement, what is important is that they are indeed aware of what the science is reporting (I have seen many examples of students that later in life did outgrow those anti evolution ideas, knowing the basis of the science well did help them reach an epiphany later), and it is IMHO our duty to not give too high a grade to that student that does not do a good job as you said. It is crucial so that he does not get the idea (and the universities that would consider him or her) that his/her name will be added to the shrinking pantheon of scientists that supported creationism and gave support to already discredited ideas. It will mean less of a chance for wilfully ignorant guys to get a degree only to then abuse of it by misleading others with their misguided authority. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816/20 "2015-06-18T03:25:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not really, virtually all the people that you think that have no reason to learn about it will be patients some day, what they decide to follow does influence the treatments that are developed **or not**. **And as recent fights about teaching the controversy shows the ones that ignore evolution can toss a lot of monkey wrenches into our educational system. There is a lot of young people out there that were denied or had a lot of doors closed because of their ideology.** Not quite sure I follow your first sentence above. Are you saying a _medical patient’s_ outcome to some treatment will be affected, if a knowledge of evolution had some bearing on the development of the treatment but the patient doesn’t believe in it? Or that such a patient might reject a life-saving treatment if it violates his religius beliefs (a well-known phenomenon in Christian Science and the JW rejection of blood). Or are you saying that absence of knowledge of evolution could cause some potential treatments to never be developed at all? Could be, but it doesn’t matter what the _patient_ believes. It’s sufficient that scientists doing medical research know, y’know, _science._ As for your second two sentences above (bold added) – I addressed that in Post #4, Paragraph 1. I drew the line where religious fanatics obstruct the teaching of good science or otherwise force their beliefs on the rest of us (like, anti-abortion activism or anti-LGBT activism, etc.) > [@Senegoid](#): > > Now, suppose we have, say, some Jehovah’s Witnesses in my class. I’m all for respecting diversity and people’s religious preferences, even kooky ones like JW up to the point where they begin trying to force their beliefs on the rest of us (like, demanding that evolution not be taught, or be taught in parallel with “Creation Science”). As for this: > [@](#): > > And as I mentioned in my previous post you are also ignoring agriculture, conservation and many other fields. I didn’t make any specific list of fields that I meant to be all-inclusive. I listed just a few fields as examples, where scientific knowledge might be important or not. Ag and conservation are obviously fields with a lot of STEM content. A die-hard religious fundie might be able to raise cows, but could he breed a better cow without knowing at least something about evolution? (Well, he could know about principles of breeding but not grasp that it has a lot to do with knowledge of evolution.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-for-all-well-educated-people-to-know-and-believe-theory-of-evolution/722816.md?page=2)