# How important is it that a mystery book solution be solvable by the reader? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 16, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050 "2021-03-16T23:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/81 "2021-03-22T04:47:26Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > The Asey Mayo series (24 books, 1931-1951), by Phoebe Atwood Taylor, are my favourites. Those are great and they are character driven. Yes, the ‘clews’ are there and the suspects, but usually you are panting along juuust behind Asey. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/82 "2021-03-22T13:53:07Z")
> [@staili](#): > > If it’s presenting itself as a “fair play” type of mystery, it has to seem fair in retrospect. That was my big issue with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo The solution is obvious at the beginning but one of the character says ‘No that’s not what happened’ and the lead character accepts it with no basis whatsoever. Then after the entire book, Yes that’s what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/83 "2021-03-22T15:03:16Z")
There’s a John Dickson Carr mystery where the _detective_ says something similar on the first page. That’s cheating. He gets an “F” and he’s lucky he didn’t get expelled from the Mystery Writers of America. (Mostly because they didn’t exist at the time and he was living in England. Still. He shoulda.) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/84 "2021-03-25T09:56:21Z")
The counterargument to “fair play” is something like _Homicide: Life on the Streets_, which is more in the spirit of “true crime” (like its source material) than a _Columbo_-style whodunit. Some of their best cases have an informant walk in off the street (for Gordon Pratt), the killer confesses out of the blue (Bayliss), or they never solve it (Adena Watson). Arguably, the focus is more on the department’s dramas and intrigues than on how they catch the killer, and the few times they do play by the rules of mystery solving, it comes off kind of comic book-ey and not in a good way. Robert K. Ressler (Author of _Whoever Fights Monsters_) wrote that real life investigators rely a lot more on snitching than sleuthing. It makes for a less entertaining story, but also a more realistic one. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/85 "2021-03-25T11:10:46Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Arguably, the focus is more on the department’s dramas and intrigues than on how they catch the killer, I think that’s less arguable than a plain statement of fact. The focus really wasn’t on the _Homicide_ at all, it was firmly on the _Life on the Streets._ It was a slice-of-life drama that happened to be about the work lives of a Baltimore homicide squad. I enjoyed the show, and I think I’ve seen most of the episodes, but I don’t remember ever trying to figure out the solution to any “mysteries” - I just followed along with the drama. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/86 "2021-03-26T00:07:40Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The counterargument to “fair play” is something like _Homicide: Life on the Streets_, which is more in the spirit of “true crime” (like its source material) than a _Columbo_-style whodunit. Some of their best cases have an informant walk in off the street (for Gordon Pratt), the killer confesses out of the blue (Bayliss), or they never solve it (Adena Watson). Arguably, the focus is more on the department’s dramas and intrigues than on how they catch the killer, and the few times they do play by the rules of mystery solving, it comes off kind of comic book-ey and not in a good way. > > Robert K. Ressler (Author of _Whoever Fights Monsters_) wrote that real life investigators rely a lot more on snitching than sleuthing. It makes for a less entertaining story, but also a more realistic one. To come back around, though: there were **Columbo** episodes where a witness simply _told_ that nice fella from the LAPD what happened, and — well, the Lieutenant promptly did the same thing as when he just _figures_ that someone is guilty: talking with the suspect until the guy slips up, maybe helping things along by acting like this here piece of fake evidence will already be enough of a convincer for a jury. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/87 "2021-03-27T05:33:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But short story master Edward Hoch wrote over 100 impossible crimes solved by Dr. Sam Hawthorne of the most murder-plagued small town in Connecticut. They’re collected in a half-dozen books and don’t seem overly repetitive even when read together. these are some of the best short stories ever. I have a couple of the books but I read most of them in _Alfred Hitchcock’s Mystery Magazine_ or _Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine._ If you can find them, in any form, I totally recommend them. You won’t be sorry! I prefer books where I have a chance to solve the crime. Even if I get it wrong, finding out what I missed or misinterpreted is fun in itself. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > If you don’t have interesting characters there’s really not much point in reading. Half the fun is watching Holmes and Watson interact, or Wolfe and Archie (and the rest of his cast). This is a big part of the enjoyment. There is a bunch of short stories about a college professor that solves crimes. His nickname in the stories is something like The Human Computer. The stories are okay, but the character is so unlikeable to me that I often just skim thru the stories. > [@Hampshire](#): > > I think that’s why I didn’t love **Knives Out** as much as everyone else I really did not like this movie. Daniel Craig’s accent was really annoying. To hear him drone on and on made me want to kill him. Also, and this is my fault, I didn’t recognize Captain America, his parts in the beginning were so short that I ruled him out as a background character. Then there was the suicide by slitting your throat while laying on your side but the blood drop managed to go 20 feet across the room and end up as a perfect circle on the tennis shoe. I must also confess I sometimes re-read The 3 Investigators or Hardy Boy books. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/88 "2021-03-27T11:54:40Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > There is a bunch of short stories about a college professor that solves crimes. His nickname in the stories is something like The Human Computer. The Thinking Machine by Jacque Futrelle? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/89 "2021-03-27T14:29:01Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I must also confess I sometimes re-read The 3 Investigators or Hardy Boy books. Oh, man, I loved the Three Investigators books when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/90 "2021-03-27T16:12:16Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > these are some of the best short stories ever. I have a couple of the books but I read most of them in _Alfred Hitchcock’s Mystery Magazine_ or _Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine._ If you can find them, in any form, I totally recommend them. You won’t be sorry! All the Ed Hoch Sam Hawthorne impossible crime stories have been collected and reprinted by small mystery publisher Crippen & Landru. [Only four books are currently available, though](https://crippenlandru.com/magento/index.php/catalogsearch/result/?cat=&q=edward+hoch). Mystery fanatics need to know Crippen & Landru. They’ve been collecting short stories by many great if forgotten writers for years. I know most readers vastly prefer novels, which is why they fill a huge niche nobody else is bothering with. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/91 "2021-03-27T19:34:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The Thinking Machine by Jacque Futrelle? That’s the one. I missed it by _this_ much! > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Oh, man, I loved the Three Investigators books when I was a kid. Me too. Plus, it’s been so long since I’ve read them it’s like reading them for the first time. I so wanted a secret headquarters just like theirs when I was a kid. Not to mention the free Rolls Royce with chauffeur in full uniform! > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Mystery fanatics need to know Crippen & Landru. Thanks for this! They even have signed editions on some of them. Great for me because signed editions are the only dead tree books I buy anymore. Everything else is e-book. I was simply running out of room to store all the books I bought and something had to go. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/92 "2021-03-27T22:23:37Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I was simply running out of room to store all the books I bought and something had to go. Solved that by tossing the furniture. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/93 "2021-03-28T17:53:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Oh, man, I loved the Three Investigators books when I was a kid. _Oh_ yeah! A bunch of them have been translated into Castilian Spanish, and when I started learning Spanish in the Fall of 2018, I bought like, 5 of them in Spanish to practice. It was so much fun! ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/94 "2021-03-28T19:11:10Z")
I tried that, but my wife countered by throwing me out. So we - what’s that word where you do what your wife wants? - oh, yeah, compromised. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/95 "2021-03-30T02:40:00Z")
Noir is filled with stories in which the mystery being solved is secondary to the characters or milieu being explored. Raymond Chandler was a master of this. There is a famous story about the filming of _The Big Sleep_, when the writers realized they couldn’t figure out who murdered one of the characters from either the book or the script. When contacted, Chandler admitted he had no idea either. Other examples: _Chinatown_ _In a Lonely Place_ Can the whodunnit be made any more irrelevant than in this final scene (beware: spoilers)? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5lNYAbpJo78/maxresdefault.jpg "In A Lonely Place (1950) - Ending Scene (3/3)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lNYAbpJo78) ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/96 "2021-03-30T04:45:06Z")
then you get the laurence blocks bernie rodennbar books where by the 3rd book you dont give a damn about the “mystery” really other than an excuse to hang out with the motley crew of characters ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050/97 "2021-03-30T15:35:04Z")
You can make decent tables and even chairs by piling books. Ask me for tips! 🤪 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-that-a-mystery-book-solution-be-solvable-by-the-reader/938050.md?page=4)