# How important is it to visit Iraq before coming up with a strategy to deal with it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597 "2008-07-15T19:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/1 "2008-07-15T19:57:01Z")
I listened to John McCain’s Town Hall meeting in Albuquerque this morning, and he lambasted Obama for having an Iraq strategy without actually having visited Iraq first, implying, if not outright saying (I don’t have the transcript so I can’t be sure of how he said it) that “you don’t determine strategy without having been on the ground in that region first- that’s not the way it’s done” and that pretty much Obama is a dummy for doing it this way. How important is it that a person actually visit a region in order to come up with a strategy concerning that region? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/2 "2008-07-15T20:03:54Z")
It’s not so much seeing the region, per se, but it’s talking to all the people you need to talk to over there before formulating your strategy. You need some face time with the US military personnel and the Iraqi military and government officials. Being there will get you access to information you can’t get here, simply because you can’t summon everyone to visit you. Plus, you’ll probably get more candid info if you go to their turf than making them come to you (all of whom you couldn’t get here even if you wanted). ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/3 "2008-07-15T20:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It’s not so much seeing the region, per se, but it’s talking to all the people you need to talk to over there before formulating your strategy. You need some face time with the US military personnel and the Iraqi military and government officials. Being there will get you access to information you can’t get here, simply because you can’t summon everyone to visit you. Plus, you’ll probably get more candid info if you go to their turf than making them come to you (all of whom you couldn’t get here even if you wanted). [/QUOTE] Has Barack Obama, as a senator, previously had the authority/ability to get face time with these officials and did not, or is this just a McCain tactic to “make him look bad”? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/4 "2008-07-15T20:10:42Z")
It would be nice to talk to Iraqis and see what they are about. To know what kind of government they want and what they are willing to tolerate for it. Though that is more of a nuance, and not the main issue. The main issue for our President is what is good for America. One can make a few goals that are good for America without visiting the region. Then they can go to Iraq to work out the details of how to accomplish that plan. Other facts that would be relevant to the issue is whether Bush ever visited Iraq before he made his shitty plan to invade it. Did McCain visit the place before he approved Bush’s shitty plan? ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/5 "2008-07-15T20:16:35Z")
[QUOTE=Lakai] It would be nice to talk to Iraqis and see what they are about. To know what kind of government they want and what they are willing to tolerate for it. Though that is more of a nuance, and not the main issue. The main issue for our President is what is good for America. One can make a few goals that are good for America without visiting the region. Then they can go to Iraq to work out the details of how to accomplish that plan. Other facts that would be relevant to the issue is whether Bush ever visited Iraq before he made his shitty plan to invade it. Did McCain visit the place before he approved Bush’s shitty plan? [/QUOTE] I have to admit, this is one of the few McCain speeches I’ve made it all the way through. I’m trying to work on hearing both sides, ya know- just for fairness and my own ignorance fought and all. I just heard McCain say this and saw all these people nodding their heads in fervent agreement and I thought “It can’t be _that_ easy, can it?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/6 "2008-07-15T20:17:34Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] Has Barack Obama, as a senator, previously had the authority/ability to get face time with these officials and did not, or is this just a McCain tactic to “make him look bad”? [/QUOTE] I don’t see how Petreaus could reasonably refuse a meeting with Obama-- either during one of Petreaus’ visits to the US, or an Obama trip to Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/7 "2008-07-15T20:28:03Z")
How many Bush Admin members had ever been to Iraq before deciding to invade it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/8 "2008-07-15T20:31:48Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How many Bush Admin members had ever been to Iraq before deciding to invade it? [/QUOTE] [Rumsfeld](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/30/sproject.irq.regime.change/) obviously did, but that was a while before. In 2002, how many would have been allowed in, and what would they have learned? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/9 "2008-07-15T20:40:10Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] Has Barack Obama, as a senator, previously had the authority/ability to get face time with these officials and did not, or is this just a McCain tactic to “make him look bad”? [/QUOTE] I should think so. Senators go on [del]taxpayer-funded vacations[/del] fact-finding missions all the time. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/10 "2008-07-15T21:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > How important is it that a person actually visit a region in order to come up with a strategy concerning that region? Is this a trick question? 😉 I’d say it’s pretty important to talk to people in the region (both your own people and those in the country) before formulating a major policy about it, yes. -XT ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/11 "2008-07-15T21:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Is this a trick question? 😉 I’d say it’s pretty important to talk to people in the region (both your own people and those in the country) before formulating a major policy about it, yes. -XT [/QUOTE] Definitely not a trick question. This talking point kind of stuck out at me, because McCain & supporters are definitely characterizing Obama as being inexperienced, with this strategy-before-visit being an example of a giant misstep by Obama. I guess my question is: is this a glaring example of Obama’s purported inexperience, or just McCain trying to get leverage in this race? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/12 "2008-07-15T21:23:32Z")
**How important is it to visit Iraq before coming up with a strategy to deal with it?** Not at all. Did Bush visit Iraq before invading? Of course not, and that’s been such a stunning success that McCain wants to stay another hundred years. Decisions based on ignorance often turn out to be the _best_ decisions. That _is_ McCains logic here, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/13 "2008-07-15T21:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] **How important is it to visit Iraq before coming up with a strategy to deal with it?** Not at all. Did Bush visit Iraq before invading? Of course not, and that’s been such a stunning success that McCain wants to stay another hundred years. Decisions based on ignorance often turn out to be the _best_ decisions. That _is_ McCains logic here, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] Lots of emotion in that post. I get it that you don’t like Bush, but your argument makes no sense at all. Care to flesh it out a bit more for us? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/14 "2008-07-15T21:33:22Z")
Why is Senator Obama visiting Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/15 "2008-07-15T21:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] I guess my question is: is this a glaring example of Obama’s purported inexperience, or just McCain trying to get leverage in this race? [/QUOTE] Well, that’s more a question related to the presidential race, which is loaded with rhetoric and hyperbole. Of course McCain is going to play up his supposed superior experience while attempting to downplay Obama’s. I think Obama is being smart by backing away somewhat from categorically saying if he’s elected he will pull the troops out…because I think he DOES need some additional input before deciding that. Whether that means going to Iraq or not, I’m unsure. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/16 "2008-07-15T21:41:22Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Lots of emotion in that post. I get it that you don’t like Bush, but your argument makes no sense at all. Care to flesh it out a bit more for us? [/QUOTE] Nah, not much emotion there. Anyway: The war itself was not the result of the sort of deeply analytical process McCain is advocating Obama undertake here. Yet acording to McCain’s own words, it’s all going to work out OK. That rather undermines McCain’s claim that such personal and in depth experience of the situation is a requirement for getting Iraq right. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/17 "2008-07-15T21:50:13Z")
For what it’s worth, here is the text: [QUOTE=McCain] “[Obama] is speaking today about his plans for Iraq and Afghanistan before he has even left, before he has talked to Gen. Petraeus, before he has seen the progress in Iraq and before he has set foot in Afghanistan for the first time,” McCain said at a campaign event in New Mexico. “In my experience, fact-finding missions usually work best the other way around: First, you assess the facts on the ground; then you present a new strategy.” [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/18 "2008-07-15T21:50:58Z")
Not important at all. He will get surrounded by right thinking soldiers and Iraqis. He will not get any info, just another dog and pony show. It is a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/19 "2008-07-15T21:52:52Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Lots of emotion in that post. I get it that you don’t like Bush, but your argument makes no sense at all. Care to flesh it out a bit more for us? [/QUOTE] The obvious point he/she is making is that McCain’s position makes no sense. McCain is insisting that Obama needs to go and hobnob with the Iraqis, while supporting decisions that were made without even trying to understand the Iraqis. As for how important it is for Obama to go there, not at all. He’d be unable to get a straight answer from people who’d either be terrified to be anywhere near him or any other American, or trying to get something out of him. Who’d want to express an opinion that might get them dragged off to an American torture chamber or “disappeared” ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/20 "2008-07-15T22:02:03Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Nah, not much emotion there. Anyway: The war itself was not the result of the sort of deeply analytical process McCain is advocating Obama undertake here. Yet acording to McCain’s own words, it’s all going to work out OK. That rather undermines McCain’s claim that such personal and in depth experience of the situation is a requirement for getting Iraq right. [/QUOTE] So, you don’t think it’s necessary for Obama to go to Iraq in order to formulate his strategy? Forget what McCain said or whether or not he’s a hypocrite. He could be a hypocrite and still be be right. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597.md?page=2)