# How important is it to visit Iraq before coming up with a strategy to deal with it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597 "2008-07-15T19:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/81 "2008-07-16T23:34:48Z")
Meh, it’s a minor disagreement. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/82 "2008-07-17T00:02:23Z")
Obama has not formalized a plan. He’s only outlined a goal and said he wants to work with his military advisors to find the best strategy for achieving it. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/83 "2008-07-17T01:08:35Z")
Thanks, all, for your different perspectives. 'Tis very enlightening. So I think my final impression is that of course, yes, a visit is never a worthless venture (how productive it can be at this point is up for interpretation). Things can be learned there, in addition to the things that can be learned from here. But is it imperative to visit before voicing a basic strategy? No. Is it imperative (from a strategic perspective) as a presidential candidate to visit before you are or are not elected? Not imperative, no. Is it imperative (from a voter’s perspective) as a presidential candidate to visit before you are or are not elected? Probably, since it appears to the voters (these days) as being expected. Is Obama a foolish, unexperienced man because he named a game-plan before going there, as McCain implies? Of course not. Do I have it right? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/84 "2008-07-18T12:22:23Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] Do I have it right? [/QUOTE] It seems that way to me. [Here’s McCain](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080718/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_obama_s_trip_1) expressing his joy at Obama’s scheduled trip: > [@](#): > > “The fact is I’m glad that he’s going to Iraq. I’m glad that he’s going to Afghanistan. It’s long, long overdue if you want to lead this nation and secure our national security,” he told reporters on his campaign bus. > > “If he was so concerned about Afghanistan and the threat there and the need to send additional troops, don’t you think he should have gone there?” McCain asked. > > Later in the day, however, he said he thought other parts of the trip seemed geared toward politics, not the visits to the war zones. The man just can’t seem to resist petty carping. ---
**Author:** ![9thFloor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/b487fb/32.png) [@9thFloor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/9thFloor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/85 "2008-07-18T12:35:32Z")
[QUOTE=xanthous] I listened to John McCain’s Town Hall meeting in Albuquerque this morning, and he lambasted Obama for having an Iraq strategy without actually having visited Iraq first, implying, if not outright saying (I don’t have the transcript so I can’t be sure of how he said it) that “you don’t determine strategy without having been on the ground in that region first- that’s not the way it’s done” and that pretty much Obama is a dummy for doing it this way. How important is it that a person actually visit a region in order to come up with a strategy concerning that region? [/QUOTE] It’s important if Obama says it is. It’s not if he says it isn’t. Kind of like, you know, experience, years on the national scene, how often he’s set foot outside the country, etc. I recall folks blasting Bush for not having traveled the world and yet having the hubris to pronounce on foreign policy. Seeing as how he’s a puppet candidate with – according to today’s New York Times – 300 foreign policy advisors (LOL!!), I’m sure he’ll be fed all types of hopefully confusing information which he can then try to make sound inspirational and salt of the earth by replacing the last “y” in his words with “eh” (as in, this “countrehhh”) while waxing rhapsodic on rhetorical meaninglessness. With, as he’d hope, some great symbol like the unification bridge in Germany behind him. I saw an article recently entitled “Does Experience Matter?” so I guess this will just be a trend that goes on ad infinitum. Nothing, apparently, matters if it doesn’t play into Obama. Do associations matter? Politics of association! Do voting records matter, voting present over 100 times? Everyone does that! Does experience matter? My opponent has experience and look how bad he sucks! Do promises matter like public financing, the telecom bill, etc.? No, I’m a pragmatist and the facts change!..um, no facts changed 527s were in operation back when you made the promise and [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) is a 527 for that matter and you said you’d filibuster that bill not settle for a negotiated…oh nevermind…Do positions matter? No, I conveyed that I thought the DC gun bill was constitutional and now agree that it wasn’t…said 16 months on Iraq and now will “continue to refine” my policy! Right. Nothing matters when it comes to Obambi. Meanwhile, CNN did two Political Ticker articlettes on “the pound” – is it gone or is it back? LOL This country deserves what it gets if it elects this holier-(and cornier)-than-thou shell. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/86 "2008-07-18T13:22:02Z")
There’s a nice article in today’s Washington Post on managing congresscritters: [Baghdad Embassy Has Its Hands Full With Hill Visitors](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/17/AR2008071703007.html?hpid=sec-politics) > [@](#): > > When it comes to hosting congressional delegations, the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad likes to think of itself as the eHarmony of Iraq – lawmakers outline what they’re looking for, and officials try to set up the perfect date. > > Choices include visits with home-state troops, bull sessions with Iraqi parliamentarians, tours of urban markets or military training facilities, and briefings from senior U.S. and Iraqi officials. A trip to the shrinking front lines – Mosul is the summer’s preferred destination – can still be arranged for what the embassy calls “tip-of-the-spear groupies.” > … > Most receive a standard 90-minute briefing from Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker. More influential lawmakers are given an audience with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, while others are directed toward more available Iraqi officials such as Deputy Prime Minister Barham Salih, whose excellent English and familiarity with things American have made him a congressional favorite. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/87 "2008-07-21T14:44:56Z")
In light of the actual trip, has anyone changed their minds now about whether it was important for Obama to go, or whether or not he actually got a lot out of it? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/88 "2008-07-21T16:03:46Z")
Not me. I still think it’s a campaign trip. There has never been any reason for McCain or Bush to go either. It’s all a big jerk off. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/89 "2008-07-21T16:16:55Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] In light of the actual trip, has anyone changed their minds now about whether it was important for Obama to go, or whether or not he actually got a lot out of it? -XT [/QUOTE] My position is unchanged. Obama will need to make quite a few trip to Iraq if he becomes president. It’s a good idea he started now-- no one trip is going to make a difference, since what has to happen is a process, not an event. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/90 "2008-07-21T16:25:21Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] My position is unchanged. Obama will need to make quite a few trip to Iraq if he becomes president. [/quote] Why? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597/91 "2008-07-21T16:32:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Why? [/QUOTE] Because we’ll have troops there for quite some time to come, even in the most optimistic scenario. As president, he needs to establish a good relationship with Iraqi leaders, and you need face time for that. They will come to the US and we wil go there. That’s what presidents do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-important-is-it-to-visit-iraq-before-coming-up-with-a-strategy-to-deal-with-it/456597.md?page=4)