# How in the world is Fantasy Football not gambling? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 27, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694 "2015-09-27T14:30:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/1 "2015-09-27T14:30:28Z")
At the moment, legally, Fantasy sports carved out an exception for themselves saying they are games of skill because you are picking players to put on your team. That seems ridiculous to me. There is no argument you can make that Fantasy Football isn’t gambling that wouldn’t also apply to betting straight up on a game. Essentially an NFL team is a Fantasy team the league picked for you. Apparently the reason we are seeing ads everywhere for Fan Duel and Draft Kings everywhere all of sudden is the Billionaires saw the potential profit and invested heavily into the industry. I can’t imagine it will last though, it is clearly gambling so either betting on games will becomes league or or these sites will go the way of On Line Poker and have to hosted overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/2 "2015-09-27T14:49:26Z")
Congress already said they are going to look into this. The blitz of ads caught their attention too. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/3 "2015-09-27T16:23:14Z")
The percentage that the house keeps on dfs is huuuuge. Way higher than casinos, way higher than online poker. If it continues to be legal, I’d expect some serious regulation on the rake. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/4 "2015-09-28T22:27:04Z")
In other threads people have indicated that the house keeps about 10% of the wagering. JSexton do you think it is higher than 10%? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/5 "2015-09-28T22:39:50Z")
If it is 10% then it would be higher than online poker and most table games in casinos, about equal to casino poker, and lower than a lot of slots. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/6 "2015-09-29T06:04:17Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Congress already said they are going to look into this. The blitz of ads caught their attention too. Not to mention the adds are misleading, and theres an entire industry of sharks looking to match up against minnows and take their money: [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/you-aren-t-good-enough-to-win-money-playing-daily-fantasy-football](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-10/you-aren-t-good-enough-to-win-money-playing-daily-fantasy-football) The industry has jumped from a few buddies forming a rotisserie league for fun and bragging rights as well as a few affordable sheckels to a multibillion dollar internet operation, and the Feds aren’t getting their cut. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/7 "2015-09-29T06:31:34Z")
Some other thread around here discussed it recently. TLDR: The reason betting on fantasy sports is legal is because in their infinite wisdom, the legislative geniuses behind the UIGEA law that effectively killed online poker gambling _specifically exempted_ fantasy sports gambling. At the time, MMO daily/weekly fantasy sports weren’t a thing, so they saw no harm in what they saw at the time as small-time, harmless gambling between friends and cow-orkers. With that loophole large enough to drive large fleets of large vehicles through, a million annoying commercials were born. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/8 "2015-09-29T13:06:27Z")
[This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=767434) asked basically the same question and I replied in it: "Daily Fantasy Sports (DFS) is different from sports gambling because you’re playing against other players, not the house. It’s different from online poker because everyone starts at the exact same level. There’s no “luck of the draw.” " As for the rake, DraftKings keeps 10% of 50/50 and head to head contests. On prize pools, they need to hedge against contests not filling up so the rake is higher. Looking at the NFL millionaire maker, it appears the rake is over 12%, assuming a full contest. If it doesn’t fill, the rake is a smaller percentage. Look at DK’s website it will tell you exactly what they’re keeping. There are x entries at $y each and the total payout is $z. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/9 "2015-09-29T14:24:44Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > [URL=“[Legality of Fantasy Sports for money vs. Betting on Games - The Game Room - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=767434)”] Looking at the NFL millionaire maker, it appears the rake is over 12%, assuming a full contest. If it doesn’t fill, the rake is a smaller percentage. Hmm… it can’t always be a smaller percentage, the money has to go somewhere. Some of the time the non-full position(s) will disproportionally win and the house will rake a **larger** percentage. I suppose that in such a case the house is actually gambling to the proportion that their position is not hedged, and calling non-hedged portions of the bets ‘part of the rake’ is not quite correct. But, if you discount the windfalls for the house when the unpopular position wins you would need to discount the hit the house would take when overpopular position wins, for consistency. So it’s either always over 12% ignoring the non-full effects, or the rake could be larger or smaller than 12% if you classify all the bet outcomes as part of the rake. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/10 "2015-09-29T14:27:51Z")
I want to know how fantasy football eked out this sort of niche where it’s considered cool and Ok and yet fantasy and sci-fi still manages to not be! Fantasy football is just as ridiculous as LARPing. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-in-the-world-is-fantasy-football-not-gambling/732694/11 "2015-09-29T16:24:30Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Hmm… it can’t always be a smaller percentage, the money has to go somewhere. Some of the time the non-full position(s) will disproportionally win and the house will rake a **larger** percentage. > > I suppose that in such a case the house is actually gambling to the proportion that their position is not hedged, and calling non-hedged portions of the bets ‘part of the rake’ is not quite correct. But, if you discount the windfalls for the house when the unpopular position wins you would need to discount the hit the house would take when overpopular position wins, for consistency. So it’s either always over 12% ignoring the non-full effects, or the rake could be larger or smaller than 12% if you classify all the bet outcomes as part of the rake. In a guaranteed prize pool contest, the payout is the same whether they reach the maximum number of entries or not. If such a contest falls far short of max entries, it’s called overlay and it’s exactly what DFS players are looking for. > [@](#): > > For example, at the time of writing, DraftKings is hosting a GPP tournament for which the prize pool is set at $9,000. The entry fee is $12 and 855 people are allowed to join. If the contest fills to capacity – that is, 855 people enter it – DraftKings will generate $10,260. That’s more than enough to match the guaranteed pot. The excess is the site’s profit (i.e. rake). > > Let’s say only 500 people enter the GPP. The cumulative entry fees will total only $6,000, well below the guaranteed pot. > > That’s an overlay. > **[How To Identify Large-Field Daily Fantasy Sports Overlays](http://www.dailyfantasysports101.com/identify-large-field-overlays/)** > > Want to get in on GPP tournaments but aren't sure how to identify overlays? Use this tutorial to show you how.