# How is anti-wokeism different from sexism and/or racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604 "2023-02-11T01:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/224 "2023-02-19T14:15:44Z")
…I haven’t moved any goalposts. And you didn’t clarify any meaning. I still don’t know what you mean by “bickering.” I don’t know what you mean by “absolutist thinking.” I don’t know what you mean by “zero tolerance for criticism” because that isn’t a thing that I am seeing. I don’t know what snark, vitriol, constant rage, and overreacting to often innocuous things you are talking about. And if you think a “fair argument can be made that many who claim to be “woke” do partake heavily in bigotry against those they perceive as privileged (white, cis, male, old, etc) and it kind of flies in the face of the progressive stance that bigotry of any kind should be avoided” then I’m still waiting on you to make that fair argument. I haven’t moved any goalposts. But it sure looks like you have. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/225 "2023-02-19T14:29:13Z")
> [@up2eleven](#): > > Not looking to address moved goalposts. The goalposts haven’t moved. You just refuse to step out onto the field. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/226 "2023-02-19T15:16:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by “absolutist thinking.” I don’t know what you mean by “zero tolerance for criticism” because that isn’t a thing that I am seeing. This is what you aren’t seeing: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And if you don’t believe that, or if you think I’m exaggerating, and if you don’t understand how dangerous her voice is in this conversation, then no, you aren’t on the same side. This looks to me (and I suspect others) like an absolute: agree with me wholeheartedly, or you’re against me. This, and other things you’ve written, seem intolerant of any shade of gray on the subject. No, I’m not going to provide specifics because it won’t help - you seem blind to how you come off, and dismiss any other interpretation of your posts. It doesn’t seem absolutist and intolerant to you… so it’s not, and you _absolutely_ will not _tolerate_ views to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/227 "2023-02-19T15:18:43Z")
> [@epbrown](#): > > No, I’m not going to provide specifics because it won’t help It would help us believe that the phenomena you complain about actually exists. Got Facts? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/228 "2023-02-19T16:20:48Z")
> [@up2eleven](#): > > I’m not talking about the House, Senate, or President. I’m talking about people whose names are not in the public discourse because they’re not in front of cameras and they’re not wasting their time on social media. People working tirelessly, writing letters to Congress, donating time and money to organizations that advocate for their causes, organizing public events to get their message out in a rational and compelling way, voting strategically, etc. is how the democratic process works. That’s what gets legislation passed. So I agree with you, and it’s kind of funny to see it treated like a controversial point. Show me to the loudest, most argumentative voices railing against perceived injustices on the internet (and in meatspace) and I’ll show you the people who are the least effective in bringing out the change they desire. In the last 5 years, the left has amassed a disproportionate number of these counterproductive millstones, and unsurprisingly, we are seeing the results of this in policy. Cause and effect. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/229 "2023-02-19T16:21:54Z")
For example? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/230 "2023-02-19T16:37:53Z")
Sure, this checks all the boxes. > ACLU lawyer with a lot of influence, right? Why is that influence being wasted on taking racially charged, misogynist potshots at a beloved children’s book author whose popularity has only grown in the last few years? When there are so many other issues that energy could go toward? And global fascism, really? It’s very a high school way of arguing a position. No one finds this convincing except others who engage in this performative loudmouthery. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/231 "2023-02-19T16:39:44Z")
(_Who is PP?_) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/232 "2023-02-19T16:41:40Z")
Already covered and responded to about nine posts up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/233 "2023-02-19T16:42:58Z")
The author of the opinion piece, Pamela Paul. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/234 "2023-02-19T16:43:28Z")
The author of the NYT piece in the background. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/235 "2023-02-19T17:00:50Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > a beloved children’s book author whose popularity has only grown in the last few years I hate to break it to you, buttttt… ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/236 "2023-02-19T17:16:27Z")
> **[Sales of Harry Potter books soar magically](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11359165/Sales-Harry-Potter-books-soar-magically-despite-calls-boycott-JK-Rowling.html)** > > Publisher Bloomsbury said sales of the immensely popular books about the world-famous young wizard had jumped 35 percent in the first half of 2022. Hogwart’s Legacy has also broken records. If it’s inconceivable to you that JKR’s popularity and commercial success has only grown in the last few years, then you’re probably out of touch with a lot of things occuring in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/237 "2023-02-19T17:25:02Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Hogwart’s Legacy has also broken records. After the publisher took great pains to make it clear that she wasn’t directly connected to the game. Your link claims that sales of Harry Potter books hrew by 35% in the latter half of 2022 compared to the first half. Since sales for a decades old book series weren’t all that high in 2022 to begin with, a 35% increase on the 25 year anniversary isn’t nearly as impressive as you seem to think. I’m gonna need a better cite for the claim that her popularity has only grown in the last few years. Meanwhile, the Fantastic Beasts series has underperformed, worse with each new installment. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/238 "2023-02-19T17:26:12Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Hogwart’s Legacy has also broken records. Which records? ---
**Author:** ![up2eleven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/up2eleven/32/13432_2.png) [@up2eleven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up2eleven)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/239 "2023-02-19T17:32:20Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Show me to the loudest, most argumentative voices railing against perceived injustices on the internet (and in meatspace) and I’ll show you the people who are the least effective in bringing out the change they desire. In the last 5 years, the left has amassed a disproportionate number of these counterproductive millstones, and unsurprisingly, we are seeing the results of this in policy. Cause and effect. My fellow progressives can barely agree on anything and so many refuse to cooperate with those who disagree with them on just about anything. “I won’t work with Frank because he’s not vegan…” I’ve literally watched this shit happen when I was more involved. Occupy was a miasma of internal conflict and changed nothing. The reason the right gains so much power is that they have specific goals and they put personal differences aside to achieve them. I don’t like their goals, but they are much better organized and much harder to distract from getting what they want done. I honestly think people on my side of these issues are far more interested in picking fights and getting a fix for their gotcha addiction than in actually solving problems. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/240 "2023-02-19T17:36:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Which records? I looked this up. The news is reporting that it “did better than Elden Ring” (ok, that was a pretty hardcore game though, this is reaching a much wider, more casual audience) and that it broke the revord for Twitch viewrship (again, makes sense, casual game with an appeal to the younger crowd that spends lots of time on Twitch). It also had lots of views on Steam before release (“most” by some specific criteria?). In terms of actual numbers, it’s selling pretty well. Nowhere near Cyberpunk (but with less performance issues I expect Hogwarts to catch up by the end of the first year). So, it’s one of the year’s big games, but it’s not a gamechanger or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/241 "2023-02-19T17:40:26Z")
Thanks, that fits with what I’d been hearing, that it was selling well, but not doing anything extraordinary. The Twitch thing is interesting, because it suggests there’s a lot of people out there who are interested in the game, but aren’t buying it for whatever reason. Well, most likely the $70 price tag, if I’m being honest. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/242 "2023-02-19T17:46:11Z")
Unsubstantiated anecdotes _again?._ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/243 "2023-02-19T17:47:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The Twitch thing is interesting, because it suggests there’s a lot of people out there who are interested in the game, but aren’t buying it for whatever reason. I think the main thing with Twitch was that they were heavily pushing “Twitch drops”, where you link your Twitch account and your Warner Brothers Games account, and then you watched specific streamers streaming HL during early access, you’d earn these cosmetic items that you get ingame when it releases: [https://www.hogwartslegacy.com/en-us/twitch-drops](https://www.hogwartslegacy.com/en-us/twitch-drops) > [@](#): > > Q: What exclusive rewards can I earn from obtaining Twitch Drops for _Hogwarts Legacy_? > > A: If you’ve linked your WB Games account to your Twitch account, for every 30 minutes watching a stream from any streamer with _Hogwarts Legacy_ drops enabled, you’ll receive the following cosmetic items. In order: > > - Silver Dragon-Eyed Spectacles - Facewear Cosmetic. > - Urchin Hat - Headwear Cosmetic > - Carmine Lightning Bolt Scarf - Neckwear Cosmetic > - Lilac Ensemble - Outfit Cosmetic So that’s 2 hours of Twitch content for every player who’s into these cosmetics, and I understand they were pretty heavily marketed before release. So it seems to me that the Twitch records are a product of a successful marketing campaign. With that, I’ll also note that this game is the last revenue stream for Warner Brothers when it comes to Harry Potter. The Beasts series is dead, they sold the rights for HP streaming to Universal. So the idea that JK Rowling or the HP franchise is at the height of its popularity is pretty laughable. It sounds like @YWTF may be > [@YWTF](#): > > out of touch with a lot of things occuring in the real world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604.md?page=13)