# How is anti-wokeism different from sexism and/or racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604 "2023-02-11T01:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/21 "2023-02-11T12:27:42Z")
@WalterBishop: nice of you to prove the OP’s point. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/22 "2023-02-11T13:06:55Z")
How did I do that? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/23 "2023-02-11T13:45:29Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > The underpinning of anti-wokeness is that many people from across the political spectrum find things done in the name of wokeness to be objectionable. I don’t think it’s possible to discuss one without the other. The underpinning is in the pointing to something that they don’t like, usually with substantial misrepresentation, declaring it to be “wokeness”, and using that as an example of why they don’t like wokeness. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > Anti-wokeness is not a movement Nor is racism. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > There’s no obligation for any one person who calls themself ‘anti-woke’ to defend anyone else who ascribes to that label. No, but those anti-woke sure _do_ get defensive, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/24 "2023-02-11T13:54:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The underpinning is in the pointing to something that they don’t like, usually with substantial misrepresentation, declaring it to be “wokeness”, and using that as an example of why they don’t like wokeness. But surely you can see that there are plenty of examples of the reverse, right? People dismissing valid criticisms of progressive overreach by handwaving them away as bigotry? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, but those anti-woke sure _do_ get defensive, don’t they? Everyone’s defensive about everything these days. It takes two sides to have a culture war, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/25 "2023-02-11T15:57:13Z")
I see where the OP is coming from. There is a vocal contingent that complains whenever a media property features a woman or minority prominently. I’m thinking Finn, a black stormtrooper from Star Wars, the cast from the Prachett/Gaiman adaptation of Good Omens, and, if you’ll forgive me for flying my nerd flag, a prominent Youtuber in the Warhammer 40k sphere who complained bitterly about Warhammer novels with girls/minorities on the cover. It’s hard to see those kinds of objections as anything but bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/26 "2023-02-11T16:17:07Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > It takes two sides to have a culture war, after all. I disagree. Look at the SOTU and the responses. Biden made scarcely any mention of anything that could be construed as “woke”, just the one brief mention of the Equality Act. Meanwhile the responses were almost entirely about “anti-woke”, and how we need to stop teaching kids to be gay and hate their whiteness, or whatever. And I think this is reflected in the general political discourse. I hear the word “woke” much, _much_ more often from people who are deriding it, than advocating it. This is a largely one-sided war. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/27 "2023-02-11T16:22:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > There is an element of overlap of course between wokeness and anti-sexism and anti-racism but that’s a bit like equating a Christian in general with an inquisitor or a Muslim in general with ISIS. No, it’s more like equating a Christian with a person who believes that Jesus is the Messiah. “Woke” means anti-bigotry. That’s it. That’s exactly what it means. And so being anti-woke means being pro-bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/28 "2023-02-11T16:38:17Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > People dismissing valid criticisms of progressive overreach by handwaving them away as bigotry? I see that accusation often from those of an authoritarian bent, but when pressed for actual examples, they are revealed as misrepresentations or nut picking. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > Everyone’s defensive about everything these days. Nice deflection and redirection. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > It takes two sides to have a culture war, after all. No, it does not. Not at all. That’s like claiming that a bully’s victim is just as culpable because it takes two to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/29 "2023-02-11T16:41:57Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > So lets just stick to the original definitions then. Within part of the definition you quoted is the concept of slavery reparations. If that is a concept aligned with “woke” then it is certainly possible to be against such an idea without that marking you down as a bigot. It has some appealing qualities and I’ve heard decent arguments in its favour but many people of all ethnicities think that overall it is a terrible idea and doomed to failure and they also have persuasive cases. To argue against it is not bigotry. To that extent then, being anti-“a specific aspect of woke” is nothing like sexism or racism. Another example would be anti-“identity politics as a core concept of how we structure our world”. There is a very valid case to be made against that also. If someone were anti-“everything that could be encompassed by the term woke” then I very much suspect that they would be a hateful bigot in all conceivable ways. But I’ve never actually come across anyone in real life who is like that. What more often tends to happen (especially online) is that someone, arguing against one specific issue that can be reasonably encompassed by “woke”, is assumed to be against all related issues and denounced accordingly. Which is clearly nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/30 "2023-02-11T16:57:57Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > People dismissing valid criticisms of progressive overreach by handwaving them away as bigotry? The University admission policy is a subject of legitimate debate. Neither side, however, is “woke.” Woke doesn’t mean “extreme progressivism” > [@Mijin](#): > > I hear the word “woke” much, _much_ more often from people who are deriding it, than advocating it. Except for years ago, when I first heard the term, I _only_ hear the word woke these days from people criticizing it (and almost always re-defining it to make it fit their criticism). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/31 "2023-02-11T20:43:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Except for years ago, when I first heard the term, I _only_ hear the word woke these days from people criticizing it (and almost always re-defining it to make it fit their criticism). Here’s a somewhat recent example of that criticism in action. > **[AOC Explains Why Democrats Don't Have a 'Woke Problem'](https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-why-democrats-woke-problem-election-1646842)** > > Ocasio-Cortez hit back at commentators such as Joe Scarborough, Don Lemon and Candace Owens, who suggested the party needs to address the "woke" perception. AOC is pointing out that the Republicans have a strategy for disenfranchising minority voters by putting in security measures that will disproportionately affect them. This is to prevent voter fraud that is alleged by the right without evidence. “The Big Lie.” She says that this is an example of a “woke” cause; fighting against blatant racial inequities. Meanwhile, Republicans are claiming that voters are tired of “woke” policies as they push their attempts to sabotage democracy. I think this is a perfect example of anti-wokeness in action, and how it really is bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/32 "2023-02-11T22:14:55Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Because (as the articles @Atamasama linked to say) the word “woke” is used to mean such different things by different people, I think it has lost any usefulness it may once have had. I honestly have no idea what the hell it means. In practice, it is actually not meant to mean anything in particular; it’s used by right wingers to vaguely mean “things/people I don’t like.” A similar word in their lexicon is “communist,” which once meant communist, but now means “things/people I don’t like.” “Woke” is usually applied to non-political targets or issues, and “communist” to political targets and issues, but you’ll get some “woke” applied in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/33 "2023-02-11T22:33:23Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Within part of the definition you quoted is the concept of slavery reparations. …wiki: > [@](#): > > _ **Woke** _ ([/ˈwoʊk/](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English) [_WOHK_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Pronunciation_respelling_key)) is an [adjective](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjective) derived from [African-American Vernacular English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English) (AAVE) meaning “alert to [racial prejudice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_prejudice) and [discrimination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_discrimination)”.[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke#cite_note-%C3%96berg_2022-1)[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke#cite_note-Calcutt_2021-2) Merriam Webster > [@](#): > > aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice) > **[Definition of WOKE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke)** > > aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice) —often used in contexts that suggest someone's expressed beliefs about such matters are not backed with genuine concern or action…... Dictionary . com > [@](#): > > having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities: > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/woke)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! Cambridge: > [@](#): > > [aware](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/aware), [especially](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/especially) of [social](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/social) [problems](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/problem) such as [racism](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/racism) and [inequality](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/inequality): > **[woke](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/woke)** > > 1. past simple of wake 2. aware, especially of social problems such as racism… Note the commonalities with every definition. Awareness. Alertness. Note what isn’t a commonality: “reparations.” Reparations are only mentioned a few times in the article: as a “shorthand for American left ideas”, then on how certain ideas have become “associated with wokeness”. But woke, in itself, means nothing more than _awareness_ of systematic injustices and prejudices. If you are criticising the concept of reparations, then you are criticising the concept of reparations. You aren’t criticising “wokeness.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/34 "2023-02-11T22:56:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you are criticising the concept of reparations, then you are criticising the concept of reparations. You aren’t criticising “wokeness.” Reparations might be something a person suggests as a remedy for issues that are associated with “wokeness” but has no direct part of it. It’s like saying, “I don’t like the idea of safety because I don’t like to wear a hazmat suit.” Or equating justice with the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/35 "2023-02-11T22:59:54Z")
Wanting and leaving the term “woke” to be vague allows one to use it as a substitute for sexism or racism and not be called on it(for the most part). ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/36 "2023-02-12T00:25:13Z")
When people use “woke” as a pejorative, they are referring to social-justice positions that _they_ think go too far. So Ron DeSantis might consider schoolbooks with neutral depictions of gay families to be “woke.” But a center-left person can also, for instance, object to calls to “defund the police” as “woke.” And not all acts that are carried out _in the name of_ anti-racism or anti-sexism stand up to scrutiny. Some are therefore called out as “wokery.” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/37 "2023-02-12T03:35:25Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > And the definition of Woke you provided is still much too vague, IMO. Too vague? Like, > [@WalterBishop](#): > > I know it when I see it. vague? Any definition is less vague than the one you provided. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/38 "2023-02-12T04:12:17Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > But a center-left person can also, for instance, object to calls to “defund the police” as “woke.” Except I can’t envision anyone who is genuinely left of center (ie: a progressive Democrat, not one of those centrists or center-right types that make up the majority of the democrats in Congress) using “woke” as a slur like that. That’s the thing: the sort of people who use “woke” as a slur are the people who are already so far right that there is no possible alternative, more charitable, construction of the word than one which betrays the source’s own racism. They don’t _just_ think defunding the police is “woke.” Keep after them and they’ll likely admit much more blatantly racist attitudes than the misguided notion that the state of policing in America _isn’t_ irredeemably racist in its current form. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/39 "2023-02-12T06:15:58Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > That’s the thing: the sort of people who use “woke” as a slur are the people who are already so far right that there is no possible alternative, more charitable, construction of the word than one which betrays the source’s own racism. It’s probably the same kind of person who thinks “Happy Holidays” is a direct attack on Christianity. It’s a long journey to get to that point, and it takes quite a bit to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2023, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/40 "2023-02-12T06:17:52Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s probably the same kind of person who thinks “Happy Holidays” is a direct attack on Christianity. Ah yes, simple farmers. People of the land. The common clay of the new West. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604.md?page=3)