# How is anti-wokeism different from sexism and/or racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604 "2023-02-11T01:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/101 "2023-02-13T13:37:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My point is that it wasn’t _what_ they were saying in college, it was how they were saying it that bothered me. I wasn’t uncomfortable with the message, it was the indoctrination aspect. As in, I was expected to _think_ a certain way to have a job, not just perform a certain way. That didn’t sit well with me then, and it doesn’t now. It wouldn’t matter to me if it was something I agreed with; the point is that being employed by someone doesn’t require ideological purity or believing certain things, _especially_ in a public sector job. What did they want you to _think_? For example, if they told you that you’re wrong for thinking “homosexuality is an unnatural abomination”, even if you then go on to think “but it’s not their fault they have these urges; hate the sin, not the sinner” - then yeah, I agree, stay the fuck away from roles involving caring for children, some of whom may be LGBTQ. > [@bump](#): > > Gee… I suppose having a couple of married gay friends visit our home yesterday doesn’t count for anything, huh? You are correct, the “but I have a black friend” defense counts for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/102 "2023-02-13T13:43:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If bump’s residential advisor role training consisted purely of being told “treat everyone like a human being” then I highly suspect they would have had no complaints at all. I’m dying to know what horrivle brainwashing they tried to use on @bump. Did they tell them they’re homophobic unless they have gay sex three times before breakfast every day? Did they make them watch hours and hours of gay porn in a windowless room? Or did they just tell them, “gay people are just like everyone else, and it’s homophobic to think of them any differently”? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/103 "2023-02-13T17:58:09Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the history _isn’t_ complex. And the two sides are the way it is defined by the scholars and the dictionaries, and :: waves hands :: all the bizarre, differing, conflicting, subjective definitions you can see in this thread. The fact that there are “differing, conflicting, subjective definitions” just here in this thread, and in the cites you yourself provided, is clear evidence that there has been much more to the use of the word than just the two options of… a) only an _awareness_ of systematic injustices and prejudices (by the good guys) b) only a pejorative used by adversarial political forces (by the bad guys) > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And it didn’t magically morph. I never claimed that. It was deliberate. An intentional shift. No, you didn’t claim that, but you do seem to be claiming that it went from definition (a) to definition (b) with no intermediate steps. I dispute that. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What are the core concepts of woke? I’d stick with option (a) above. A definition that you yourself provided and that I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/104 "2023-02-13T18:10:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m dying to know what horrivle brainwashing they tried to use on @bump. Did they tell them they’re homophobic unless they have gay sex three times before breakfast every day? Did they make them watch hours and hours of gay porn in a windowless room? Or did they just tell them, “gay people are just like everyone else, and it’s homophobic to think of them any differently”? I guess we can’t say unless bump comes back and clarifies, but I have to say, that’s a heck of a lot of excluded middle there don’t you think? I get very uncomfortable when the language strays into the territory of what people should or shouldn’t _think_. In your sentence above I’m far less bothered about what a person _thinks_ about someone than I am about the intentional treatment of that individual. If what was stated to bump was > it’s homophobic to _treat_ them any differently Then yes, for me that is a perfectly reasonable demand in a civilised society. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/105 "2023-02-13T18:19:12Z")
So it is o.k.to actively promote hatred and hateful actions as long as you take no action yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/106 "2023-02-13T18:22:38Z")
That doesn’t make sense. Actively promoting hatred and hateful actions _is_ taking an action, you are _actively_ doing something to carry out that promotion. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/107 "2023-02-13T18:23:58Z")
You are sending mixed signals here. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/108 "2023-02-13T18:25:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You are sending mixed signals here. No mixed signal from me, what did I write that gave you the impression that I think… > [@Czarcasm](#): > > it is o.k.to actively promote hatred and hateful actions as long as you take no action yourself ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/109 "2023-02-13T18:31:34Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Please explain how this statement from President Obama is racist or sexist. It’s not, IMHO, but it’s also not in any way “anti-woke”. It’s saying that activists shouldn’t be smug about being “politically woke”, and should not focus their attention on nitpicking disputable details rather than working for meaningful change. But Obama is definitely not saying that there’s anything wrong with being “woke” per se. If you think that remark is a disparagement of political “wokeness” in and of itself, I think you’re totally misreading it. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/110 "2023-02-13T18:32:49Z")
So you’re saying you can think gay people are an unnatural abomination and expect us to believe you can “not treat them any differently”? That’s delusional thinking. And yes, I wouldn’t hire you if you openly admitted you thought that way. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/111 "2023-02-13T18:40:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s saying that activists shouldn’t be smug about being “politically woke”, and should not focus their attention on nitpicking disputable details rather than working for meaningful change. Right. It was about being a slacktivist/keyboard warrior and claiming _that_ shows how “woke” you are. It’s “so you’re woke — good: now do something about it more than flaming in the comments”. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/112 "2023-02-13T18:45:01Z")
> **Muhammad Hijack Hidden by What Exit?** > > > [@BwanaBob](#): > > > > So you’re saying you can “think” gay people are an unnatural abomination" and expect us to believe you can “not treat them any differently”? That’s delusional thinking. > > I know for a fact that pretty much any devout Muslim thinks of me as an abomination but I’ve run my life so far on the assumption that the vast majority of such people I come into contact with will treat me as their equal. Seems to work just fine for me. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/113 "2023-02-13T18:46:28Z")
> **Muhammad Hijack Hidden by What Exit?** > > > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > > I know for a fact that pretty much any devout Muslim thinks of me as an abomination… > > Huh? Are you Salman Rushdie?? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/114 "2023-02-13T18:46:32Z")
> **Muhammad Hijack Hidden by What Exit?** > > > [@BwanaBob](#): > > > > I wouldn’t hire you if you openly admitted you thought that way. > > I assume then you wouldn’t hire any reasonably adherent Muslim or similarly devout religious person? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/115 "2023-02-13T18:48:39Z")
> **Muhammad Hijack Hidden by What Exit?** > > > [@RitterSport](#): > > > > Huh? Are you Salman Rushdie?? > > In terms of the beliefs I hold about the Muslim faith and pretty much any organised religion, yes, I’m very much of the same mind as Rushdie. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/116 "2023-02-13T18:50:38Z")
I really don’t think you know that for a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/117 "2023-02-13T18:51:37Z")
What don’t I know for a fact? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/118 "2023-02-13T18:54:06Z")
> **Muhammad Hijack Hidden by What Exit?** > > That most devout Muslims thinks of you as an abomination. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/119 "2023-02-13T18:55:50Z")
What an odd exchange. OK, I’ll go back to lurking on this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604/120 "2023-02-13T19:03:29Z")
> **Muhammad Hijack Hidden by What Exit?** > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > That most devout Muslims thinks of you as an abomination. > > Well I think their holy book is a hate-filled load of nonsensical lies and apologia for murder, their prophet was a paedophile. Drinking is fine, homosexuality is fine, sex outside of marriage is not only fine but to be encouraged, pork is fine, circumcision is bad, women are the full equal of men and there is zero good evidence for the existence of god. > > It may be that “abomination” is not quite the word for how devout Muslims think of someone with views such as mine. But I’m sure they take a dim view. I am also pretty sure that most can manage to treat me perfectly civilly anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-anti-wokeism-different-from-sexism-and-or-racism/979604.md?page=7)