# How Is Communism a Religion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901 "2010-12-31T01:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/101 "2011-01-05T00:42:27Z")
Well, anyone who thinks atheism is a religion is uninformed at best. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/102 "2011-01-05T00:49:39Z")
Uninformed of what information? The grand high proclamation from the non-God that Atheism is not a religion? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/103 "2011-01-05T00:57:16Z")
Uninformed of the definition of atheism. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/104 "2011-01-05T02:03:11Z")
Which is? And according to whom? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/105 "2011-01-05T02:05:51Z")
An absence of theistic belief. According to the academic definition and the definition used by mots atheists themselves. This is becoming a childish loop. Atheism is not a belief. It contains no beliefs. It’s the absence of one specific belief. It contains no characteristics of religion whatsover. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/106 "2011-01-05T02:12:21Z")
Does Buddhism really not have a supernatural element? Reading this: [Buddhist cosmology - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cosmology) it seems to be full of fantasy shadowy realms populated by devas (angel deities) which are overseen by Brahma (the creator God). Actually Buddhism seems shit to me. This is the desired end result when one has achieved perfection: > [@](#): > > One thus attains bodhi and becomes a buddha. In Theravada Buddhism, bodhi and nirvana carry the same meaning, that of being freed from greed, hate and delusion. I don’t want to be freed from greed, hate and delusion. They are strong emotions but the stronger emotions are what make us human. I don’t wanna be a robot. Especially hate. Man, I would really miss hate if it went. And delusion - I quite enjoy a bit of that from time to time. Perfection, the ultimate goal of Buddhism, is this: > **[Enlightenment in Buddhism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi)** > > The English term enlightenment is the Western translation of various Buddhist terms, most notably bodhi and vimutti. The abstract noun bodhi (/ˈboʊdi/; Sanskrit: बोधि; Pali: bodhi) means the knowledge or wisdom, or awakened intellect, of a Buddha.\[web 1\] The verbal root budh- means "to awaken", and its literal meaning is closer to awakening. Although the term buddhi is also used in other Indian philosophies and traditions, its most common usage is in the context of Buddhism. Vimutti is the fre... > [@](#): > > Bodhi is attained when the ten fetters that bind a human being to the wheel of samsara have been dissolved; when the Four Noble Truths have been fully understood and all volitional conditioning has reached cessation (nirodha), giving rise to transcendent peace (nibbana). At this moment, the psychological roots of all greed (lobha), aversion (dosa), delusion (moha), ignorance (avijjā), craving (tanha) and ego-centered consciousness (attā) are completely uprooted. So, greed, aversion, delusion, ignorance, craving and ego. I want all of them. I’m craving a kebab right now. And I need my ego, it’s the only thing that keeps me going. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/107 "2011-01-05T02:14:59Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > Does Buddhism really not have a supernatural element? No _necessary_ ones, no. There are lots of popular supernatural beliefs within Buddhism, but none of them are required to be a Buddhist. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/108 "2011-01-05T02:16:05Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > Does Buddhism really not have a supernatural element? It depends on the school of Buddhism you’re talking about and it depends on the Buddhist. See my link in post #60 on Theravada Buddhism. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/109 "2011-01-05T02:16:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > An absence of theistic belief. According to the academic definition and the definition used by mots atheists themselves. This is becoming a childish loop. Atheism is not a belief. It contains no beliefs. It’s the absence of one specific belief. It contains no characteristics of religion whatsover. I have addressed this previously. Your insistence on facts that can’t be established is just one of the characteristics you share with the religiulous. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/110 "2011-01-05T02:20:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I have addressed this previously. You were in error. I am correcting you. > [@](#): > > Your insistence on facts that can’t be established is just one of the characteristics you share with the religiulous. Atheism asserts no facts. It declines to assert a fact. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/111 "2011-01-05T02:31:24Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > It depends on the school of Buddhism you’re talking about and it depends on the Buddhist. See my link in post #60 on Theravada Buddhism. Even your link talks about rebirth which all sounds a bit sci-fi to me since there’s no evidence whatsoever that there is a soul that leaves your body on death: > [@](#): > > Enlightenment is an individual journey to Nirvana (complete bliss)–liberation from suffering and cycles of rebirth–acheived by following the Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path. To eliminate karma, which causes rebirth … the primary goal of Buddhism–to reach Nirvana, to end cycles of rebirth. Your link still has echoes of the wiki page I linked to: > [@](#): > > To eliminate karma, which causes rebirth, one must extinguish the belief in a separate self that give rise to cravings, desires, and attachments. There’s them cravings again. And my link includes Theravada Buddhists - it details what’s in the most early scriptures. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/112 "2011-01-05T02:42:11Z")
You don’t have to believe in karma to be a Buddhist. Supernatural beliefs of any kind are neither required nor prohibited. They’re kind of beside the point. You can even be a Christian and be a Buddhist. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/113 "2011-01-05T02:45:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Atheism asserts no facts. It declines to assert a fact. Then Atheists don’t assert that there is no God? If you want to continue to prove that that your contention is incorrect we should do this in the other thread, unless you believe this applies to Communism as well. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/114 "2011-01-05T02:45:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Then Atheists don’t assert that there is no God? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/115 "2011-01-05T02:47:09Z")
It is not required that you believe them but they are there nonetheless. Buddhism tells you to focus on the now but it still has a recommended supernatural background. And rebirth is by definition a supernatural belief. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/116 "2011-01-05T02:54:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nope. Must be that mots sect of Atheists that you belong to. The rest seem to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/117 "2011-01-05T03:05:48Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > Even your link talks about rebirth which all sounds a bit sci-fi to me since there’s no evidence whatsoever that there is a soul that leaves your body on death Did you not read what came right before what you quoted?: > [@](#): > > There is no transmigration of individual souls, but through the law of karma, one’s wholesome or unwholesome intentions become imprinted in the mind. Negative mental states persist through continual rebirth until one’s intentions become wholesome. “No transmigration of individual souls” should have been enough for you to conclude “there’s no evidence whatsoever that there is a soul that leaves your body on death” wasn’t a comment relevant to what you read on the page I linked to. From the wiki article on Buddhist Rebirth: > [@](#): > > Another view of rebirth describes the cycle of death and birth in the context of consciousness rather than the birth and death of the body. In this view, remaining impure aggregates, skandhas, reform consciousness. > > Buddhist meditation teachers suggest that observation reveals consciousness as a sequence of conscious moments rather than a continuum of awareness. Each moment is an experience of an individual mind-state such as a thought, a memory, a feeling or a perception. A mind-state arises, exists and, being impermanent, ceases, following which the next mind-state arises. Thus the consciousness of a sentient being can be seen as a continuous series of birth and death of these mind-states. Rebirth is the persistence of this process. Lots of good articles on [buddhanet.net](http://buddhanet.net). See these: [http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm](http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm) [http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm](http://www.buddhanet.net/ans73.htm) > [@](#): > > There’s them cravings again. And my link includes Theravada Buddhists - it details what’s in the most early scriptures. So? That has nothing to do with supernatural beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/118 "2011-01-05T03:06:34Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > It is not required that you believe them but they are there nonetheless. Buddhism tells you to focus on the now but it still has a recommended supernatural background. > > And rebirth is by definition a supernatural belief. It is fairer to say that in Buddhism the **gods** are beside the point – a clear distinction with Hinduism. “Yoga” means “yoking” – i.e., linking the devotee’s soul to God. To a Buddhist, the gods are in pretty much the same fix **you** are and you won’t get enlightenment by praying to them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/119 "2011-01-05T03:12:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Duck Season! And yet, somehow this has continued for several days. Take this hijack into a new thread about atheism and religion or let it go. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901/120 "2011-01-05T03:18:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > To a Buddhist, the gods are in pretty much the same fix **you** are and you won’t get enlightenment by praying to them. But they are still Gods ie supernatural. > [@x-ray vision;](#): > > Buddhist meditation teachers suggest that observation reveals consciousness as a sequence of conscious moments rather than a continuum of awareness. Each moment is an experience of an individual mind-state such as a thought, a memory, a feeling or a perception. A mind-state arises, exists and, being impermanent, ceases, following which the next mind-state arises. Thus the consciousness of a sentient being can be seen as a continuous series of birth and death of these mind-states. Rebirth is the persistence of this process. And what about this strikes you as being non-supernatural? A mind state arises and somehow passes into other people when you die? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-communism-a-religion/565901.md?page=7)