# How is genocide defined, with an emphasis on cultural genocide? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198 "2021-06-13T23:23:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/261 "2021-06-19T23:00:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Why do you misrepresent other posters in this way? Because this is how he justifies himself. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/262 "2021-06-23T16:21:43Z")
Not that I want to resurrect a thread that’s probably better left for dead, but my local public radio station (WNYC) is currently running Alison Stewart’s show, and she’s interviewing Louse Erdrich, whose new book, _The Night Watchman_, is apparently based on the life of her grandfather, who went to a school Ms. Erdrich is describing as a “boarding school” for Native Americans (in the US, not Canada). It’s now on my list and I’ll pick it up next time I’m in a bookstore. And yesterday’s show is described thusly: > In light of the recent tragic news of a mass grave that was discovered at a former residential school in Canada, reporter and host of multiple investigative podcasts, Connie Walker, joins us to discuss her experience being an Indigenous journalist covering the treatment of Indigenous communities, as well as the history of residential schools in Canada. WNYC makes past shows available for listening on their [website](https://www.wnyc.org/) (not sure if you can download them). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/263 "2021-06-24T15:53:48Z")
Over 700 unmarked graves have been confirmed at a residential school in Saskatchewan. Call it genocide, call it cultural genocide, call it what you will, but the cops should be seeing if anyone can be arrested, and reparations must be paid. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/264 "2021-06-24T16:37:29Z")
It’s important to note that much of the land in Saskatchewan is not unmarked graves. Wait… no it isn’t. Even though it’s true, it’s a completely irrelevant and absolutely moronic thing to note. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/265 "2021-06-24T16:39:20Z")
I expect there’s one of these waiting to be found at every one of the residential school sites. Or rather, waiting to be quantified. Based on the photos I’m seeing in the local press, this looks like an active cemetery with recent marked graves (unless those are recent grave markers put on old graves - I’m not sure). Either way, this was a site that was known about. What wasn’t known was just how many children were buried there, and by extension just how many children died while in the “care” of the school. Seeing some pretty horrifying stories from this school posted on r/Saskatchewan and r/Saskatoon by people identifying themselves as family members of survivors. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/266 "2021-06-24T17:25:30Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Even though it’s true [At this point](https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/cowessess-first-nation-says-751-unmarked-graves-found-near-former-sask-residential-school-1.5483858), I wouldn’t be so sure 😢 # 751! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/267 "2021-06-24T18:54:09Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > Do you really think no one on the multitude of Rez just can’t afford to leave? It’s 2021… and lots of us have left. Hey, some earn a bunch of money and then return to the reservation. I hired a contractor to build a patio. I looked into hiring him for some other work, a few years later, and learned that he’d quit his job at the company he was at when i hired him. Turns out he was a member of a nearby tribe, and when they decided to build some big tourist thing (maybe a casino, but I’m not certain) he quit the “white” company to work for the tribe. Getting back to the Canadian children… Does anyone else think it’s creepy that these schools have cemeteries at all? How many schools do you know with cemeteries? When i was in high school we lost about one kid a year, mostly to auto accidents, but the school didn’t bury them, their parents did. My residential college lost some kids, too. But again, it doesn’t bury them. I know lots of people who went to boarding school. None of those schools have cemeteries. Just the fact that these schools HAVE cemeteries seems like a giant red flag. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/268 "2021-06-24T20:51:23Z")
Well, but the schools you went to weren’t set up for the express purpose of destroying the culture and familial ties of their students. It’s perfectly normal for schools that are set up for that purpose to have cemeteries. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/269 "2021-06-24T21:33:58Z")
Right. A big glaring red flag. In some sense I don’t care if they marked the graves. The fact that they had their own on-site graveyard is freaking damning. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/270 "2021-06-24T22:04:00Z")
In this second case, the cemetery actually predates the school, and my understanding is that it was used by the broader community as well as the school. Photos from various news articles clearly show some graves with markers of various ages. The announcement today is not “Hey we found this huge cemetery” but rather “We’ve done our best to catalogue how many unmarked graves there are in this cemetery, and most of those are connected to the school.” While the press running with stories like “X mass graves discovered!” is a pretty sensationalist take on what’s actually going on, this does seem to actually be budging the needle for the general public’s views. If we can get to actually acknowledging how horrible the schools were instead of having most people saying “yabbut that’s just how people were back then and besides it was so long ago why can’t they just get over it?” maybe we can make a little actual progress on the reconciliation front. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/271 "2021-06-26T23:13:52Z")
Arrested for what? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/272 "2021-06-26T23:18:56Z")
Ages ago before some of these discussions went off the rails I asked the era when the burials occurred, and I don’t think there was ever an answer for it. If it was in the late 70s when I think the last of these ceased operations, that would raise a lot of questions. If it was in the 1890s, somewhat less. In the 19th century most people were buried near where they died (whether it be at home or not) due to the logistics of the era in transporting bodies, and most people not having the means to arrange for that. It wouldn’t surprise me if any facility in which large numbers of people lived had burial facilities nearby. I’ve visited this Asylum (after closing it became a tourist attraction): [Weston State Hospital Cemetery in Weston, West Virginia - Find A Grave Cemetery](https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2132404/weston-state-hospital-cemetery) Note that it just says there’s a single market there to commemorate everyone buried. They buried lots of people there over its years of operation, but they were always buried in “temporary marked” graves (not unmarked.) The temporary markers were cheap and made of wood, and over time disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/273 "2021-06-26T23:21:10Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’ve visited this Asylum (after closing it became a tourist attraction): [Weston State Hospital Cemetery in Weston, West Virginia - Find A Grave Cemetery](https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2132404/weston-state-hospital-cemetery) > > Note that it just says there’s a single market there to commemorate everyone buried. They buried lots of people there over its years of operation, but they were always buried in “temporary marked” graves (not unmarked.) The temporary markers were cheap and made of wood, and over time disappeared. What does that case have to do with this case? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/274 "2021-06-26T23:41:43Z")
This report I just read on the Canadian Truth & Reconciliation Commission’s website fills in a lot of details I hadn’t previously seen that I thinks offers a lot more explanation than much of the low information and ragey commentary found in this thread. A good read for those interested in knowing actual information (this excludes most people who have participated in this discussion.) [Microsoft Word - AAA Hamilton cemetery Apr11\_15.docx (exactdn.com)](https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/AAA-Hamilton-cemetery-FInal.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/275 "2021-06-26T23:53:14Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > A good read for those interested in knowing actual information (this excludes most people who have participated in this discussion.) Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/276 "2021-06-27T00:11:40Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Arrested for what? Forget it, he’s on a roll. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/277 "2021-06-27T01:14:22Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > If it was in the late 70s when I think the last of these ceased operations, that would raise a lot of questions. If it was in the 1890s, somewhat less. No, you don’t get to play the “oh oh it was a long time ago, let’s not make a fuss now” card. Yes, many of the deaths of children no doubt occurred many years ago. But we are just NOW paying proper attention to actually what went on and why. It has been hushed up and forgotten for too long. We can’t just brush it away again because it happened in the past. As was posted in the MPSIMS thread: > [@Many hundreds of unmarked graves of Indigenous children discovered at Canadian residential schools](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/many-hundreds-of-unmarked-graves-of-indigenous-children-discovered-at-canadian-residential-schools/943674/220): > > “It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness, by habitating so closely in these schools, and they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone, does not justify a change in the policy of this department, which is being geared towards the final solution of our Indian problem. > > It is quite within the mark to say that 50% of the children who passed through these schools did not live to benefit from the education they received therein.” > > Duncan Campbell Scott > Deputy Superintendent General of Indian Affairs > 1913-1932 To emphasize “the final solution of our Indian problem” Kind of paints the picture, I think. What the Government did as policy and the churches enacted with cruelty is not taught. It should be. For decades, this has been ignored. It should not be ignored or excused any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/278 "2021-06-27T01:21:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > If it was in the late 70s when I think the last of these ceased operations, that would raise a lot of questions. If it was in the 1890s, somewhat less. > > No, you don’t get to play the “oh oh it was a long time ago, let’s not make a fuss now” card. The board has a quote function, which you clearly know how to use. Just using " " to enclose “nonsensical bullshit no one said” because you’re too stupid to respond to my actual post and would prefer to respond to your own fictions is a sign of a weak, and stupid, mind. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/279 "2021-06-27T02:34:21Z")
Keep on making excuses for genocide you worthless piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![omenran](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omenran/32/3318_2.png) [@omenran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omenran)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/280 "2021-06-27T02:36:00Z")
I’ll bite. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > If it was in the late 70s when I think the last of these ceased operations, that would raise a lot of questions. If it was in the 1890s, somewhat less. So it’s ok if children died 100+ years ago, but 50 is too recent? (What’s the limit on how long we can care about this sort of behavior? Because WW2 is closing in on 75+, do people get to ignore it now, or does it have to be the full 100 years?) How come it’s ok to not inform the families and let them decide how their childs remains are treated? Why is it ok to not show respect for the human beings in their care to not even keep records of who they buried? Fun bonus question: How many white schools had graveyards of any size? It’s questions like this that you’re seemingly pushing aside and making this genocide sound less than it is. What is the proper context for genocide? Or even just _this_ genocide? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198.md?page=15)