# How is genocide defined, with an emphasis on cultural genocide? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 13, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198 "2021-06-13T23:23:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/281 "2021-06-27T02:50:47Z")
What’s hilarious is if everyone thought the way you did, we would not have the Truth & Reconciliation Commission’s report, and we likely would not know these mass graveyards even existed. You’re essentially angry that I’ve asked questions about when the burials occurred, or sought more information on the circumstances. I can only assume that is what you are angry about because that’s basically all I have done. There’s a lot of people crying like stupid bitches in this thread over kids they never met, that none of you give two shits about, and never have given two shits about. It’s all tied into your psychotic need to attack political enemies. My interest in it has always been more historical, I’m curious about the details, and I dislike seeing mouth breather style comments like RickJay saying that “people need to be arrested.” There is no clear evidence from “radar detected bodies” that anyone died of foul play or that any crime has been committed. At least down here in the United States we actually like to start with at least some veneer of evidence of criminality before arresting people. But SDMB’s lynch mob doesn’t work that way. This forum used to be about fighting ignorance, and yet there’s little more than the ignorant wails of screaming babies present in this thread. Did you even read the 44 page report I linked to? It’s prepared by a Canadian government entity specifically chartered to investigate this matter. How many of you condemning me are even familiar with the source material? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/282 "2021-06-27T03:41:48Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What’s hilarious is… Not a ghod damn thing about this situation is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/283 "2021-06-27T04:21:38Z")
All the documents that confirm the thousands of eye witness reports of crimes and horror that are in the Truth and reconciliation report, belong to the government and the church. Both of whom have denied and stonewalled what is confirmed by witnesses. Through all those years, they both denied, diminished while holding the documents that prove it’s all true and then some. These graves are just more confirmation of what is well known, for generations, of First Nations. For generations gov and church have refused to provide the documents they admit exist, that would give the parents who’s children never came home, ANY answers. Literally generations of indigenous parents were destroyed by never knowing. These truths are not to be whitewashed, they MUST be acknowledged. You can never reach reconciliation without fully acknowledging the truth. Or you get the kind of rabid political divide, generations later, like you see manifesting in the American south. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/284 "2021-06-27T05:07:10Z")
Your manufactured outrage is. By the way you know who actually encourages things like the government replacing people’s cultural beliefs with forced schooling are right? That’s the left. I.e. miscreants like you. > [@elbows](#): > > These graves are just more confirmation of what is well known, for generations, of First Nations. For generations gov and church have refused to provide the documents they admit exist, that would give the parents who’s children never came home, ANY answers. Literally generations of indigenous parents were destroyed by never knowing. I assume the parents knew. The report makes no mention that parents weren’t notified of deaths. “Death by disease”, there isn’t much more to know than that from a parent’s POV. Knowing the specific course of the illness and how long they suffered or didn’t suffer doesn’t change anything. In most cases it was the good cases where they died of their disease at school–as the T&C report mentions the schools were major vectors for infectious disease _back_ into the reservations. Kids who got too sick would be sent back to their parents, where they would then infect everyone around them. From a utilitarian standpoint for the Natives it was a tragic blessing when they died at the schools versus being sent home. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/285 "2021-06-27T05:41:26Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There is no clear evidence from “radar detected bodies” that anyone died of foul play or that any crime has been committed. …other than the crime of cultural genocide, of course (with the understanding that the graves themselves do not constitute the entirety of the –_ahem_– _corpus delecti_). ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/286 "2021-06-27T05:48:50Z")
Again, real crimes need evidence and a specific statutory framework. A specific perpetrator and specific evidence. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/287 "2021-06-27T05:54:58Z")
_pfffffft_. It’s a crime that the Designated Hitter rule and regular season interleague play exist, and that Rupert Murdoch was ever allowed to own a MLB team, let alone my beloved Dodgers. I am affiliated with no tribunal. I’ll call cultural genocide a crime if I want to. And I do. Because it is. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/288 "2021-06-27T06:00:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I assume the parents knew. The report makes no mention that parents weren’t notified of deaths. You assume wrong. The paper you rely on was published on 2014, the 2015 Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, that was posted already by @slash2k reported that parents were often not informed of the death of their children. > **[TRC Website - NCTR](https://nctr.ca/about/history-of-the-trc/trc-website/)** > > The TRC website has been archived using the Wayback Machine software. You can view the archived version by clicking here. The Wayback Machine is an archive system for websites. The archived TRC website will work like a normal website, however, it is... > These examples point to a larger picture: many students who went to residential school never returned. They were lost to their families. They died at rates that were far higher than those experienced by the general school-aged population. Their parents were often uninformed of their sickness and death. They were buried away from their families in long-neglected graves. No one took care to count how many died or to record where they were buried. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/289 "2021-06-27T06:10:17Z")
You also don’t have the powers to arrest. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/290 "2021-06-27T06:20:11Z")
A fact for which Bud Selig, Rupert Murdoch, and the ghosts of Bowie Kuhn and Peter O’Malley no doubt thank their lucky stars. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/291 "2021-06-27T08:23:23Z")
> [@Unclear Moderation + New Rule Protecting Nationality](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unclear-moderation-new-rule-protecting-nationality/944724/5): > > That’s all fair enough, and speaks volume about the moderation of the boards (unfortunately.) I’ll just cease posting in any future threads where I receive mod notes to avoid such problems in the future. While I already conceded I could have asked for clarification, if you really think making a post about a “line” without defining it, and only specifically saying what you actually had a problem with on your third and final warning, I guess we have very different views on what good moderating loo… Well, that posting cessation lasted about as long as is to expected from a known liar. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/292 "2021-06-27T08:25:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > To emphasize **“the final solution** of our Indian problem” Kind of paints the picture, I think. Why, no, I can _ **not see** _ what you mean … ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/293 "2021-06-27T15:06:19Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > assume the parents knew. I assume you’re going to keep on being an apologist for the atrocities that happened. At least my assumption is based on evidence. Take your “tragic blessing” and stuff it up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/294 "2021-06-27T15:22:35Z")
It’s true that criminal prosecutions would be relatively difficult, but there’s no shortage of specific crimes committed by specific people. Survivor accounts are full of violent physical abuse, sexual abuse, and other things which are most definitely covered by the Criminal Code, were committed by specific people, and supported by specific eyewitness testimony. The overarching crime of constructing a system intended to destroy entire cultures was of course committed mostly by people who are long dead, and hence safe from prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/295 "2021-06-27T15:28:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Ages ago before some of these discussions went off the rails I asked the era when the burials occurred, and I don’t think there was ever an answer for it. If it was in the late 70s when I think the last of these ceased operations, that would raise a lot of questions. If it was in the 1890s, somewhat less. Even at the turn of the century, the death rates at residential schools were raising eyebrows. The government of the day had the misfortune to hire an ethical doctor to look at the problem, and when in 1907 he issued a report finding the government guilty of negligence and offering recommendations to remedy the situation he was ignored and silenced. The officials of the day were well aware of what they were doing. They were doing it will ill intentions. We don’t need to extend any more charity towards them than their own contemporary did. > **[Pushed out and silenced: How one doctor was punished for speaking out about...](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/unreserved/exploring-the-past-finding-connections-in-little-known-indigenous-history-1.5531914/pushed-out-and-silenced-how-one-doctor-was-punished-for-speaking-out-about-residential-schools-1.5534953)** > > Dr. Peter Henderson Bryce isn't exactly a household name in Canada, but child welfare advocate Cindy Blackstock wants to change that. She explains how he spoke out about the treatment of children at Indian Residential Schools back in 1907. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/296 "2021-06-27T16:21:11Z")
Today is a good day to tell @Martin_Hyde to fuck off and go beat your meat somewhere else. You sicken me. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/297 "2021-06-27T16:28:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > > > assume the parents knew. > > I assume you’re going to keep on being an apologist for the atrocities that happened. At least my assumption is based on evidence. > > Take your “tragic blessing” and stuff it up your ass. And I assume you’ll keep lying and strawmanning aka the only ways you know how to post. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > It’s true that criminal prosecutions would be relatively difficult, but there’s no shortage of specific crimes committed by specific people. Survivor accounts are full of violent physical abuse, sexual abuse, and other things which are most definitely covered by the Criminal Code, were committed by specific people, and supported by specific eyewitness testimony. > > The overarching crime of constructing a system intended to destroy entire cultures was of course committed mostly by people who are long dead, and hence safe from prosecution. Again, this has been a habit of people in this thread. A poster says a specific dumb thing–in this case **RickJay** calling for arrests, not just wringing his hands and saying “oh the terrible things that happened”, but calling for people living today to be arrested. I respond to that in a fairly logical way, and the mouth breathers in the thread start foaming at the mouth about complete nonsense I never said. Again–if you want to call shit that happened with long dead people a crime, I don’t really care. I’m not about arguing that. But if you want to see people, like real world, non-SDMB fetish dream people who exist in flesh and bone, charged with a crime, you need specific crimes linked to specific people. This isn’t that complicated. Rick’s claim that arrests need to happen was specifically in response to the revelation that another graveyard had been discovered. Keep in mind these have been discovered via ground-penetrating radar. That means no Canadian equivalent of a medical examiner has exhumed and examined the remains, no determination has been made for cause of death, year of death etc. We don’t usually in free societies just start arresting random conservatives because ground penetrating radar discovered bodies, most of which probably were buried in the 1930s and earlier. > [@mistymage](#): > > Today is a good day to tell @Martin_Hyde to fuck off and go beat your meat somewhere else. You sicken me. Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/298 "2021-06-27T16:29:29Z")
JAQ-Off … ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/299 "2021-06-27T16:36:32Z")
There are many, many victims of physical and sexual abuse at the schools who are alive today. Some of the perpetrators of that abuse would also still be alive. This isn’t just about people who are long dead. And there is indeed some talk of charges in the case of the Marieval School. The RCMP say they are investigating whether charges could be brought. Those charges would be related to bulldozing grave markers in the 60’s, so not directly related to the deaths of the children. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198/300 "2021-06-27T16:40:31Z")
Like I said with my original question “arrested for what crimes?” In response to this post: > [@RickJay](#): > > Over 700 unmarked graves have been confirmed at a residential school in Saskatchewan. > > Call it genocide, call it cultural genocide, call it what you will, but the cops should be seeing if anyone can be arrested, and reparations must be paid. You’re alleging lots of living abuse victims are alive today whose abusers are also still alive. Do you believe evidence of buried bodies, detected by ground-penetrating radar, would be part of the evidence used against people indicted for sex crimes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-genocide-defined-with-an-emphasis-on-cultural-genocide/944198.md?page=16)