# How is Harlan Ellison regarded as a writer?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [April 2, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686 "2009-04-02T05:03:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/1 "2009-04-02T05:03:57Z")
I’ve read a few of Ellison’s stories in years past, but the writing style didn’t really do anything for me, so I gave up and subsequently haven’t been exposed to too much of his work. Where does he sit in the pantheon of SF writers? What has he contributed to the field? Is his writing good enough to make up for him being an asshole?
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### Author:  [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/2 "2009-04-02T05:09:19Z")
I think I’ve read one of his stories a long time ago but couldn’t even tell you the title.
Somehow he has positioned himself as being the man to turn to for sci-fi/pop culture commentary.
I agree with your assessment of his character. He comes across as very pompous. The most recent thing of his I read was the introduction to the hardcover version of The Rocketeer, published back in the mid-80s. Ellison describes the author / artist as sitting waiting for Ellison to finish typing the intro, almost as a supplicant. You get the sense that the author actually had to swing by Ellison’s house to get the text, as if finally pinning Ellison down on an outstanding promise.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/3 "2009-04-02T05:31:03Z")
I’ll wait for a True SF Critic to stop in, but add my 2 cents:
Ellison wrote, and developed a reputation for, starkly bleak SF back in the days mainstream (if there was such a thing then) SF authors wrote of bright rockets and perfect societies. His collection Dangerous Visions solidified this reputation, and included a good few of what later became famous SF authors. His story, “A Boy and his Dog” was and is an excellent example of his style, and very jarring IMHO.
OTOH, Harlen is a small, angry SOB, and that won him few fans.
But has been very talented:
> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> [Ellison] has won the Hugo Award eight and a half times; the Nebula Award three times; the Bram Stoker Award, presented by the Horror Writers Association, five times (including the Lifetime Achievement Award in 1996); the Edgar Award of the Mystery Writers of America twice; the Georges Méliès fantasy film award twice; and was awarded the Silver Pen for Journalism by International PEN, the international writers’ union.
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/4 "2009-04-02T06:13:35Z")
He’s done some quite readable non-fiction. His self-righteousness can work in humor, somehow. He’s quite funny.
Too bad his fiction is often just deeply unpleasant horror. (Though I have a great respect for “Lonelyache” as a story, reading a bunch of Ellison at once in my teens was tiresome.)
That said, “‘Repent, Harlequin,’ Said the Ticktockman” is a masterpiece. One of my favorite stories. Amazing combination of wit & despair in that.
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### Author:  [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/5 "2009-04-02T06:27:09Z")
According to a man I met once, he is the best writer who has ever lived. Needless to say, this was Harlan Ellison. (I kid, I’ve never met him.) But I did once regularly read his column in the LA Weekly call, _An Edge In My Voice_ and he was quite good. It was commentary on current events.
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/6 "2009-04-02T07:09:32Z")
Ellison is more of a “magical realism” dystopian author, like J.G. Ballard, than a “science fiction” author as most people today understand that term. (I recall reading that Ellison himself hated the label of science-fiction and resented being categorized as such.)
I like him a lot. “I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream” is one of the most chilling stories I’ve ever read. He is really a genius at coming up with horrific scenarios, which is extremely impressive to me (being an extremely paranoid and anxious person, I’m very impressed when someone can outdo my own imagination.) He also has great titles.
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### Author:  [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/7 "2009-04-02T09:49:55Z")
I have read some stuff by him, but am by no means encyclopedic in my knowlege of his material (although I’m fairly familiar with his reputation). I picked up The Essential Ellison several years ago, which was billed as a “35-Year Retrospective of His Work.”
It’s over 1,000 pages, and well worth every penny. There is nearly every kind of writing here: fiction, fact; humor, horror; thoughtfulness, callousness. Any attempt to pigeonhole him is not doing justice to his total output. He does it all extraordinarily.
It is one of the most remarkable collections of literature by one person that I’ve ever run across.
I’ve been told that he’s won more awards for his writing than anyone in American history (and possibly in history in general…it was quite a while ago). It wouldn’t surprise me, quite frankly.
He might be a total A-hole in person (don’t know; never met him, though I’ve heard rumors), but if he wants to act a bit superior, he certainly seems to have a right to do so. He’s no slouch, that’s for sure.
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### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/8 "2009-04-02T10:31:25Z")
Frank Miller mocked Ellison’s public persona in _The Dark Night Returns_, but that wasn’t really a comment on his writing.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/9 "2009-04-02T12:34:16Z")
Ellison was one of the central figures in the movement during the sixties that worked to raise the profile of SF in literary circles. The original _Dangerous Visions_ anthology mentioned above is arguably the single most important SF anthology published. He was high profile in promoting SF to wider audiences.
His fiction underwent some interesting transformations. It started relatively straightforward but improved dramatically by the late 60’s. Then he started crawling into his psychedelic navel and the stories became at best pointless rants and at world rambling, meaningless full. By the time he crawled out of that phase he still good but lacked the fire he had before.
At his best he was brilliant but there’s a lot of his writing that just makes me roll my eyes.
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/10 "2009-04-02T12:54:20Z")
Ellison is one of the giants of science fiction. You’re bound to find some of his stories among anyone’s listing of the best in the genre. I’d say that “I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream” is one of the best short stories of the 20th Century, and “A Boy and His Dog” is only slightly behind. Other great stories of his include:
“Repent Harlequin,” said the Ticktockman.
Adrift Just Off the Islets in Langerhans
Jefty is Five
The Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the World
Paladin of the Lost Hour
Crazy as a Soup Sandwich
Ellison’s public persona is an issue. He can be a very kind and caring guy (and often is – my one conversation with him was an Alphonse and Gaston attempt on the part of the two of us to be nicer than the other).
OTOH, he doesn’t not put up with crap and will let you know it. He’s also something of a showoff, so when he gets an audience he starts to go wild, often making claims to get applause that are nothing more than pipe dreams (I saw him at a con when he announced that he was writing a sequel to his Outer Limits episode “Soldier” as a **Babylon Five** script). He can also be something of a bully.
But personality aside, Harlan is still a great writer. He’s declined since his peak, but those stories are classic.
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### Author:  [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/11 "2009-04-02T13:28:35Z")
His sci-fi stuff never did much for me, but his book “Spider Kiss” about a corrupt, amoral rockabilly star and his guilt-ridden manager is terrific.
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### Author:  [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/12 "2009-04-02T13:50:21Z")
Few authors are in the literary “pantheon” during their lifetimes. Charles Dickens wasn’t considered a literary heavyweight when my father was in school (1930s), nor JRR Tolkein when I was in high school (late 70s). Sherwood Anderson was thought to be a big deal in his lifetime, but now he’s barely remembered. Jim Thompson was considered an embarrassment, but he’s been a pretty big deal for a while since **The Grifters** was filmed.
Ellison, while very readable and entertaining, has always been a little too shrill to take seriously on this level. Ask again when he’s been dead for 40 years.
Back in the 70s, when he was an easier sell to major publishers, he had a huge number of books in print by Pyramid Books, many of them not science fiction; **The Glass Teat** and its sequel (compilations of his newspaper column about television in the late 60s) remain sentimental favorites of mine, but I can’t imagine anyone under the age of 45 enjoying it at all. He also had a terrific book of crime fiction short stories, mostly about a New York street gang in the 50s (Was it **No Doors No Windows**? I lost my copy decades ago).
He consented to an ill-advised magazine interview in the early 80s with **The Comics Journal** which resulted in two expensive lawsuits, a rift with Pyramid/Ace Books and great difficulty getting his books into bookstores for the next twenty years. His third **Dangerous Visions** anthology has been “pending” for over 30 years. His writing output has suffered, to put it mildly, but there is a huge amount of material from his peak that’s still out there and available. Not all of it has aged well.
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### Author:  [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/13 "2009-04-02T14:10:29Z")
> [@Krokodil](#):
>
> He also had a terrific book of crime fiction short stories, mostly about a New York street gang in the 50s (Was it **No Doors No Windows**? I lost my copy decades ago).
That would be his first novel, Web of the City; he had joined a Brooklyn street gang (purely for research purposes) prior to writing it.
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### Author:  [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/14 "2009-04-02T14:19:22Z")
> [@Krokodil](#):
>
> He also had a terrific book of crime fiction short stories, mostly about a New York street gang in the 50s (Was it **No Doors No Windows**? I lost my copy decades ago).
That was _The Deadly Streets_. A non-fiction book, _Memo from Purgatory_, was based on his experiences when he joined a New York street gang in the '50s specifically for the purpose of writing about them, though he admits to fabricating one incident.
_Gentleman Junkie and Other Stories_ is another damn good anthology of Ellison’s non-SF stuff.
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/15 "2009-04-02T15:08:24Z")
> [@Krokodil](#):
>
> Ask again when he’s been dead for 40 years.
That mght not be terribly good for him. While people would have forgotten his foibles, I’m not sure most of his work will be well remembered in 40 years. A few stories, yeah, but they might not be quite the standouts they once were. Definitely good, but perhaps not quite one of the true greats.
> [@](#):
>
> He consented to an ill-advised magazine interview in the early 80s with **The Comics Journal** which resulted in two expensive lawsuits, a rift with Pyramid/Ace Books and great difficulty getting his books into bookstores for the next twenty years. His third **Dangerous Visions** anthology has been “pending” for over 30 years.
Holy cripies! What did the man friggin’ say? He caused two lawsuits and kneecapped his career and lost his publisher with one bloody interview?!
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/16 "2009-04-02T15:14:15Z")
For what it’s worth, I read one of his collections that included “I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream” and I didn’t get much out of it. The collection, not just that story. None of it was really what I would think of as Science Fiction, either, which fits with other comments here. Maybe these were stories from the psychedelic navel period.
He is the original author of the most famous Star Trek episode, “The City on the Edge of Forever”. There was some revision from his original script, though I don’t know how much.
For a man who does not take slights well, he sure is free at giving them out. I have only heard stories, never witnessed the man in person, but have seen him on Bill Maher’s show a couple times. He’s smart, he’s witty, but he can be very abrasive, and almost seems like he jumps at the chance to accept an insult. Like several people I have met, he creates the drama around himself that he despises.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/17 "2009-04-02T15:37:06Z")
Science Fiction is not about spaceships.
_Science Fiction is not about spaceships._
Science Fiction is not about spaceships.
**Science Fiction is not about spaceships.**
Science Fiction is not about spaceships.
Not that we’ve gotten that out of the way. Of course Ellison is a science fiction writer. He’s also a fantasy writer, a horror writer, a speculative fiction writer, a slipstream writer, and a mainstream writer. Confining writers into tight categories is something that’s done to diminish them and the field. There’s no such thing as “transcending the field” either. People only say that when they encounter something good and can’t force themselves to admit that it exemplifies genre. Genre is supposed to be awful by definition. And genre writers are supposed to pigeonhole themselves by writing only Officially Approved Stories that don’t push the constraints. Pfui, to quote Nero Wolfe.
Anyway. Ellison writes in a certain style and manner. Many great sf writers are purely idiosyncratic. Cordwainer Smith, Avram Davidson, R. A. Lafferty. They sound like nobody else in the world. This limits their audience more than the neutral or transparent style of a Heinlein or Clarke, but does not mean that they are lesser merely because of their style.
Ellison is the equal of any greats who have written in the field. He excels in the short story and the field have long since moved to celebrate only those who write novels, the longer the better. That’s what may hurt his long-term reputation. Back in the 60s, though, Ellison was the equivalent of, say, the Rolling Stones or the Who. Do we drop them out of the pantheon because they haven’t matched that performance in the last 20 years? Nobody sensible says that.
I’ll repeat what I’ve said in other threads. While it’s human to let a writer’s persona affect your perception of the work, the truth is that most writers are not nice people. A few are, sure. Not most. The reason you collectively dislike Ellison more than, say, Asimov, is that Ellison is loud and public with his flaws. If you look just at the work, the work is gigantic. The man can write. That’s all that matters for me.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/18 "2009-04-02T16:44:44Z")
**squeegee** wrote:
> [@](#):
>
> Ellison wrote, and developed a reputation for, starkly bleak SF back in the days mainstream (if there was such a thing then) SF authors wrote of bright rockets and perfect societies.
That’s not really true. There was _plenty_ of dark and grimy fiction and imperfect societies throughout the 1950s. Ellison’s early stuff reads like a lot of the short cynical fiction of the 1950s. He certainly wasn’t revolutionary in bringing dark SF to the fore.
I’m not running him down – he was and is a great writer. He was a self-promeoter, but that’s no fault. His scripts for Outer Limits and Star Trek were great. His stories got grimmer through the 1960s, I think, but it added to their charm.
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### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/19 "2009-04-02T17:11:52Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#):
>
> Holy cripies! What did the man friggin’ say? He caused two lawsuits and kneecapped his career and lost his publisher with one bloody interview?!
[This part of the Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_ellison#Lawsuit_against_Fantagraphics) only mentions one lawsuit over calling another author, Michael Fleisher, “bugfuck” and “derango”. [More details from this reference.](http://news.ansible.co.uk/c_platt.html)
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-harlan-ellison-regarded-as-a-writer/491686/20 "2009-04-02T22:04:42Z")
Harlan Ellison is an incredibly talented writer, who happens to generally write suicidally bleak stories, and who also happens to be an asshole in person. There is no contradiction in any of this.
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