# How is Israel's military so competent with such a low budget **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2025, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990 "2025-06-22T23:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/61 "2025-06-23T19:57:29Z")
“Many” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I don’t think there’s that much value in desgnating arab vs non arab societies in this context as that ethnic group doesn’t give you a remotely clear delineation of tribal culture. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/62 "2025-06-23T19:59:46Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Many is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I don’t think there’s that much value in desgnating arab vs non arab societies in this context as that ethnic group doesn’t give you a remotely clear delineation of tribal culture I’m not sure what you mean by “denigrating”. Tribal or clan based isn’t a pejorative, it’s a description of a method of organizing society. That method of organizing society is super common in the Arab world. It’s also common in Afghanistan. It’s basically absent in Iran, except for among some of the minority groups, like the Kurds and the Balochis. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/63 "2025-06-23T20:01:30Z")
No, “desgnating”. As in knowing if a society is predominantly Arabic or not doesn’t tell you how much of a tribal culture it has. There is as much exception as rule. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/64 "2025-06-23T20:02:49Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Afghanistan There are about 40 languages spoken in Afghanistan ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/65 "2025-06-23T20:09:53Z")
Ugh let me try the word again. Designating. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/66 "2025-06-23T20:56:13Z")
But people who know Iran have _also_ said that Iran isn’t especially tribal. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/67 "2025-06-23T21:00:21Z")
Two things are separately true: 1. Iran is not tribal (IE, mainstream Iranian society is not divided into clans along familial lines) 2. Iran is not Arab (most Iranians are Persians, with other large groups including Azerbijanis, Kurds, Baluchis, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/68 "2025-06-23T21:23:11Z")
Anyway, back to the OP: > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So I’m assuming it basically comes down to a few things: > > - Generals promoted based on competence, not loyalty Pretty much. Even the current administration hasn’t been stupid enough to mess with that. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > - Western military equipment is vastly superior to Russian military equipment (Iran is using Russian weapons) Modern western equipment - including Israeli equipment - is definitely better than the older Russian equipment in Iranian hands. The Iranians have some pretty decent homebrewed systems, though. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > - Israel has a strong NCO group Less so than other western militaries. What Israel has, instead, is a very strong junior officer corps, mostly because officers are largely promoted from the enlisted ranks. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > - Israeli soldiers are more motivated I think so, yeah. It’s a small country. Anything that happens, happens near home. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > - Israeli soldiers are better trained I don’t know much about Iranian training, so I can’t really compare. Israeli training is basically comparable to western standards. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > - Israeli intelligence is better (I’m sure they’re getting intel from the US and other western nations in this operation) Probably. The Intelligence Corps is the crown jewel of the IDF - it’s relatively huge, well-budgeted, and receives the best and the brightest recruits. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/69 "2025-06-23T21:46:54Z")
One big thing: There’s an old saying that generals are always preparing to fight the last war. And for the most part, that’s true. Israel (as well as Ukraine) is one of the few nations for which it’s not. They’re preparing to fight the new kind of war. In part because they’re the ones creating the new kind of war. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/70 "2025-06-23T21:50:49Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > $350 billion in PPP. OK, what the hell is this PPP you guys are throwing around? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/71 "2025-06-23T21:52:55Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > what the hell is this PPP you guys are throwing around? Purchasing Power Parity - the idea that Russia might have less money, but making the same weapon system as America costs them less, because they pay their workers less and a bunch of other factors. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2025, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/72 "2025-06-23T22:38:32Z")
Has anybody mentioned yet just how narrow the Israeli military’s mission is compared to nations with much higher defense budgets? Israel’s need to project power is effectively at its limit operating in Western and Southern Iran. Their ground forces are rarely without a direct ground supply line back to the homeland. Their Navy is only required to essentially act as a coast guard. They have no need for ships or planes that can cross oceans. And they have no alliance obligations that ever require their forces to leave the country. They have the luxury to focus their training, procurement, and budget on relatively few missions that they can do very well. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/73 "2025-06-24T00:26:04Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Has anybody mentioned yet just how narrow the Israeli military’s mission is compared to nations with much higher defense budgets? Israel’s need to project power is effectively at its limit operating in Western and Southern Iran. From what I can tell, Israel either spends less money on the military than Canada does, or about the same. This is superficially amazing, because the Canadian military is less than half the size, missing entire fundamental types of equipment, famously short of rudimentary things and struggling to find people to pay. Canada is not a corrupt country, either, and pays people well. However, at least some of the inexplicable cost of the Canadian Forces is just that the country has to try to do things Israel does not, across a ludicrously enormous area. Israel doesn’t need a true blue water navy. Canada does. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/74 "2025-06-24T00:36:39Z")
To be fair, Canada has also relied on the US as a protector. Trump may have changed things but until that muppet got in office no one would dare to attack Canada without expecting the US to rush to their aid. That 100% would have happened until Trump. The US and Canada have the longest undefended border in the world (maybe the longest border period). Which kinda left Canada with not a lot to do militarily. Not sure where that defense budget is going. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/75 "2025-06-24T00:38:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > To be fair, Canada has also relied on the US as a protector. That doesn’t help to explain why Canada spends so much, though, relative to Israel. The USA doesn’t expend any money or effort defending Canada, but if it did, shouldn’t Canada be spending LESS? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/76 "2025-06-24T00:38:53Z")
Lots of maple syrup, poutine and Molson? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/77 "2025-06-24T02:39:39Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > > > $350 billion in PPP. > > OK, what the hell is this PPP you guys are throwing around? A haircut that costs you $30 in the US may cost you $4 in China. A doctors visit that costs $300 in the US may cost you $22 in Thailand. The quality of each service is the same. Thats basically what it means, the same amount of money buys more goods and services in developing countries. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/78 "2025-06-24T13:24:11Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Their Navy is only required to essentially act as a coast guard. Their (possibly nuclear-armed) subs are perfectly capable of operating at some distance (like Sri Lanka or the Persian Gulf). It’s not global levels of force projection but it’s a little bit more than just Coast Guard. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/79 "2025-06-24T13:32:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > To be fair, Canada has also relied on the US as a protector. > > That doesn’t help to explain why Canada spends so much, though, relative to Israel. The USA doesn’t expend any money or effort defending Canada, but if it did, shouldn’t Canada be spending LESS? Canada has military obligations outside it’s own borders that Israel does not have; NATO, NORAD, and traditionally pretty much any conflict the UK might stumble into. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990/80 "2025-06-24T13:50:10Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Canada has military obligations outside it’s own borders that Israel does not have; NATO, NORAD, and traditionally pretty much any conflict the UK might stumble into. Well that’s basically it. Israel’s military is awesome but highly concentrated. They don’t help allies abroad; Canada maintains a battle group in the Baltics, has to patrol oceans, and have the ability to fight wars in places like Afghanistan. We don’t follow the UK into stuff though, you’re about eighty years late on that. That stopped in the Suez. I do think Canada’s government has historically failed to effectively spend money all the time. Our procurement failures are legendary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-israels-military-so-competent-with-such-a-low-budget/1019990.md?page=5)