# How is it even possible that there are Jews in Iran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 29, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258 "2015-03-29T02:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/21 "2015-03-29T15:56:22Z")
Article 13 of the Iranian constitution singles out “Zoroastrian, Jewish, and Christian Iranians” as the country’s “only recognized religious minorities” (so tough luck for the Baha’i). As such, the Jews are guaranteed a seat in the Iranian parliament. The current Jewish MP is [Siamak Moreh Sedgh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamak_Moreh_Sedgh). [Here](http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/187519/how-iran-kept-its-jews) is an article from _Tablet_, about “How Iran Kept Its Jews.” It’s worth reading in full, but here’s a telling anecdote: In 1979, a group of Iranian rabbis visited Ayatollah Khomeini, asking for assurances that their people would be protected. At the end of the meeting, the Ayatollah declared that “we recognize our Jews as separate from those godless, bloodsucking Zionists.” The quote, which became famous, pretty much sums up Iran’s official position vis-à-vis the country’s Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/22 "2015-03-29T16:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Alessan View Post > Bear in mind that Jews have been living in the region that is now Iran since the time of Cyrus the Great. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to leave. I don’t know. I grew up in Maryland and couldn’t wait to move away ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/23 "2015-03-29T21:14:07Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > For example you get serious fundamentalism in Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan. However that’s not some religions movement. It’s centuries to millenia of cultural tradition. Cite? As I understand it, most of the Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan and Pakistan is rooted either in [Deobandi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi), an Islamic-revival movement emerging in India in the mid-19th century, or 20th-century Salafism encouraged and funded by the Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi Salafis, and other foreign hardliners. As far as I know, all modern Islamic fundamentalist cultures have been strongly influenced by religious-extremist movements that took shape in the past five to fifteen decades, rather than simply representing “centuries to millennia of cultural tradition”. Fundamentalist Salafi Islam isn’t some timeless ahistorical phenomenon, any more than evangelical Protestantism or Lubavitcher Hasid Judaism or Shin Bukkyo Buddhism is. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/24 "2015-03-29T21:17:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How difficult is it for an Iranian Jew, along with his family, to get permission to emigrate from Iran today? AFAICT, not difficult at all. [Some other Jews are even trying to pay them to emigrate](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/jul/12/israel.iran), at least as of July 2007: > [@](#): > > Iran’s Jews have given the country a loyalty pledge in the face of cash offers aimed at encouraging them to move to Israel, the arch-enemy of its Islamic rulers. > > The incentives — ranging from £5,000 a person to £30,000 for families — were offered from a special fund established by wealthy expatriate Jews in an effort to prompt a mass migration to Israel from among Iran’s 25,000-strong Jewish community. The offers were made with Israel’s official blessing and were additional to the usual state packages it provides to Jews emigrating from the diaspora. > > However, the Society of Iranian Jews dismissed them as “immature political enticements” and said their national identity was not for sale. > > “The identity of Iranian Jews is not tradeable for any amount of money,” the society said in a statement. “Iranian Jews are among the most ancient Iranians. Iran’s Jews love their Iranian identity and their culture, so threats and this immature political enticement will not achieve their aim of wiping out the identity of Iranian Jews.” > > The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv reported that the incentives had been doubled after earlier offers of £2,500 a head failed to attract any Iranian Jews to leave for Israel. > > Iran’s sole Jewish MP, Morris Motamed, said the offers were insulting and put the country’s Jews under pressure to prove their loyalty. > > “It suggests the Iranian Jew can be encouraged to emigrate by money,” he said. “Iran’s Jews have always been free to emigrate and three-quarters of them did so after the revolution but 70% of those went to America, not Israel.” ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/25 "2015-03-29T21:28:48Z")
I would guess that the politics excluding the iranian jews who have stayed are like those in the Maghreb, who have the strong cultural attachment and also are successful in the business area, so to leave is to leave a successful economic community. ---
**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/26 "2015-03-30T02:04:40Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > For some reason a lot of people in these boards conflate “having a problem with (some) Israeli policies or even with the existence of the State of Israel” with “hating anybody who is Jewish by religion or ancestry”, but I promise there are billions of people out there who do not. Spend some time around regular Muslims, like most of the billion or so in the world, and you will find that they don’t hate Jews or Christians. In fact, they understand that Judaism and Christianity and Islam have common roots and are horrified by religious discrimination, which is why Jewish and Christian communities lived mostly peacefully in Islamic civilization, in contrast to the pogroms against the Jews and the religious wars in which Protestants and Catholics slaughtered each other in Europe This is why the bigoted people in the West who promote Islamophobia are an especially repugnant lot. It is no accident that these individuals usually represent intolerance across the board. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/27 "2015-03-30T02:40:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Cite? As I understand it, most of the Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan and Pakistan is rooted either in [Deobandi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi), an Islamic-revival movement emerging in India in the mid-19th century, or 20th-century Salafism encouraged and funded by the Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi Salafis, and other foreign hardliners. > > As far as I know, all modern Islamic fundamentalist cultures have been strongly influenced by religious-extremist movements that took shape in the past five to fifteen decades, rather than simply representing “centuries to millennia of cultural tradition”. > > Fundamentalist Salafi Islam isn’t some timeless ahistorical phenomenon, any more than evangelical Protestantism or Lubavitcher Hasid Judaism or Shin Bukkyo Buddhism is. There is a general misconception that Salafism = Wahhabism. This is simply not true. Most genuine Salafists are horrified if called Wahhabis. This confusion also extends to their dates. Wahhabis are relatively recent from the 18th/19th Century following Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab. Salafists have been around since the early days of Islam and leaders included Imam ahl al-Sunnah in the mid 800’s If you look at remote Iran and Afghanistan you see very primitive peoples (usually Sunni) who practice stoning amongst other things. These practices are not acceptable to the majority of Muslims but arise from tribal traditions. Interestingly a reasonable proportion of the Swat valley in Afghanistan only recently converted to Islam from animist religions. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/28 "2015-03-30T03:16:22Z")
:rolleyes: Swat valley is in _Pakistan_. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/29 "2015-03-30T03:31:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Swat valley is in _Pakistan_. My error - I was referring to Nuristan in Afghanistan - formerly know as Kaffiristan on account of its people being Kaffirs - non Muslims - up until 1895. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/30 "2015-03-30T06:07:25Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > If you look at remote Iran and Afghanistan you see very primitive peoples (usually Sunni) who practice stoning amongst other things. These practices are not acceptable to the majority of Muslims but arise from tribal traditions. Please tell us more about the primitive Sunni tribes of Iran. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/31 "2015-03-30T06:52:19Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Please tell us more about the primitive Sunni tribes of Iran. There are lots of them on the Eastern Border with Afghanistan. They overlap with Western Afghan tribes. The Sunni Shia divide doesn’t really follow national borders. Nor does the Arab Persian divide. For Iran have a look at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B6MGqWkpMk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B6MGqWkpMk) Note also the influence of Shia in Pakistan including The Bhuttos who provided two Presidents in a majority Sunni country. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/32 "2015-03-30T09:26:23Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > If you look at remote Iran and Afghanistan you see very primitive peoples (usually Sunni) who practice stoning amongst other things. . You are confusing comment about traditional practices with salafism and with general conservative tribal practices. In any case in this thread you have made so many errors, please just stop now. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/33 "2015-03-30T10:23:52Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > You are confusing comment about traditional practices with salafism and with general conservative tribal practices. > > In any case in this thread you have made so many errors, please just stop now. I’d appreciate if you could point out specific errors. I’ve made and acknowledged one error on the location of pagan/kaffir religions in Afghanistan. For the rest, I’m pretty sure on my points. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/34 "2015-03-30T10:47:46Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is not possible to be Sufi and Salafi. They are 100% contra the other. > > Anyone who writes such a thing has near zero understanding of what he is writing about. > > The Sufist path is charismatic, it is spiritual and it is not literalist. It is the opposite. Salafism hates sufism. > > However, to be sufi is not in contradiction to being either of the shia or of the sunni. The Tariqa differ in their approaches, some can even cross over the shia and the sunni divide but to be of a sufi tariqa is to be in utter contradiction of the Salafist (in its real meaning). > > It is for this the followers of ibn Wahab destroyed the tariqas centers in the Arabia. > > I am afraid you do not have a good understanding of what you pretend to make opinions about. This is a good, accurate explanation. ---
**Author:** ![jezzaOZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jezzaOZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jezzaOZ)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/35 "2015-03-30T10:55:18Z")
The explain this paper on Salafist Sufis in Indonesia _Islam’s devotional and mystical tradition, Sufism (tasawwuf), is commonly cast as antithetical to Salafi Islam. Self-identified ‘Salafis’, with their ideological roots in anti-liberal strands of twentieth-century modernist Islam, do commonly view Sufis as heretics propagating practices wrongly introduced into Islam centuries after the time of the pious ancestors (the Salaf). Yet reformist zeal that fixes on the singular importance of the Salaf (particularly the Prophet Muhammad and his principal companions) as models for correct piety can also be found amongst Sufis. This paper calls attention to the Salafist colouration of Sufism in two areas of popular culture: television preaching and the popular religious ‘how-to’ books and DVDs that make the preachers’ messages available for purchase. It reprises the teachings of two of the best known Indonesian Muslim televangelists, ‘Hamka’ (b. 1908, d. 1981) and M. Arifin Ilham (b. 1969), both of whom also happen to be champions of Sufism, and analyses the different rhetorical uses each has made of references to the ‘Salaf’ and the notion of ‘Salafist’ Islam._ [Indonesia’s Salafist Sufis](http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace/bitstream/handle/10072/34325/64546_1.pdf?sequence=1) ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/36 "2015-03-30T11:03:09Z")
… well if you make the term salafiste apply to a very different idea and change the meaning from the way it is used elsewhere then … yes you can have ‘salafiste’ sufi. But it is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/37 "2015-03-30T23:45:32Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > There is a general misconception that Salafism = Wahhabism. This is simply not true. Most genuine Salafists are horrified if called Wahhabis. A classic “no true Scotsman” argument. The fact is that the modern “Islamic-fundamentalist” movement that self-identifies as “Salafi” _is_ largely shaped by the religious and scholarly doctrines of Ibn Taymiyya and other Hanbali thinkers as interpreted by Ibn `Abd al-Wahhab in Saudi Arabia in the 19th century. This is because Wahhabi doctrine was not only widely embraced in its own era but enthusiastically disseminated and funded by the wealthy Saudi religious establishment in the 20th century. Yes, it’s true that there are a number of other “puritanical” or “reformist” Islamist schools or movements throughout the world that also identify their vision of “pure Islam” with the tradition of the _salaf_ or early generations of Muslim leaders, and some of those movements pre-date Wahhabi Salafism. But they are not more numerous or more influential, and certainly not more “genuine Salafists”, than the Wahhabi-influenced worldwide modern Salafi movement. The fact that many followers of Wahhabi-influenced Salafi doctrines don’t like being called “Wahhabi”, just as many members of the Church of the Latter-Day Saints don’t like being called “Joseph Smithians”, doesn’t mean that the person in question wasn’t actually crucial to the historical development of their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Patronager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/958977/32.png) [@Patronager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patronager)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/38 "2015-03-31T01:24:26Z")
Being an Iranian, I can tell you that no one in Iran hates neither Jews nor Christians. Those words against Israel are only from politicians and Mullahs to have an excuse to suppress people inside Iran (accusing any opponent of being a spy), and to distract people outside from other more important issues. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/39 "2015-03-31T21:33:15Z")
> [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](#): > > This is why the bigoted people in the West who promote Islamophobia are an especially repugnant lot. It is no accident that these individuals usually represent intolerance across the board. Yeah, Islamophobia is caused by bigoted Westerners, not by Muslims blowing up buildings and lopping off heads. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258/40 "2015-04-01T03:51:04Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Yeah, Islamophobia is caused by bigoted Westerners, not by Muslims blowing up buildings and lopping off heads. You appear to be proving the point against which you post. The factions within Islam that have practiced terrorism do not make up the entirety, or even the majority, of Muslims, yet Islamaphobes act and speak as though all of Islam embraces those actions. It is rather like various Muslims calling for hatred of all Westerners because “Westerners” have oppressed their nations and encouraged the suppression of their religion for the last 90+ years, (longer in some locales). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-even-possible-that-there-are-jews-in-iran/716258.md?page=3)