# How is it hurting me, Jayjay? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492 "2006-12-24T23:33:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/21 "2006-12-25T00:34:41Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] My apologies. I’ll amend it; you don’t convince people of something by telling them they’re intellectually lazy and partly brainwashed. No matter how right you might be or how wrong they might be, trying to convince them while insulting them just isn’t going to work. [/QUOTE] You know, you’re right. Xians are just terrific people. I don’t know what I was thinking. Am I on the right track now? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/22 "2006-12-25T00:41:16Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You know, you’re right. Xians are just terrific people. I don’t know what I was thinking. Am I on the right track now? [/QUOTE] Big difference between showing basic respect and being a brown-noser. You can still disagree with theists, you can point out the many flaws that exist in their beliefs, and if you do it nicely you’ve got a better chance of convincing someone than if you badmouth someone. As often in life, it’s the middle range you want to aim for. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/23 "2006-12-25T00:41:20Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] I’m sure I haven’t. You want to try again? [/QUOTE] No, but I’ll guide you through the process of reading for comprehension if you’d like. First step is to identify how the other person’s argument is constructed. How are the ideas grouped and separated? Are they new presentations, or are they responses to something offered previously? How are the ideas linked? Does one idea set up the propositions on which the next idea is based, or is there no necessary progression? Try deconstructing post # 8 and write a sentence which either paraphrases or responds to each idea. Be complete, but also be concise. Don’t worry; once you gain familiarity with this step, the rest of the process gets easier. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/24 "2006-12-25T00:43:52Z")
It’s interesting to me how people counseling me in avoiding rudeness and condescension (BECAUSE IT’S BAD FOR ME!) find it so hard to avoid themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/25 "2006-12-25T00:49:40Z")
C’mon man. Post #2. Where is the harm? (Where is the love?) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/26 "2006-12-25T00:50:17Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] if you do it nicely [/QUOTE] You’ve got this precisely ass backwards. All I need do is be tireless and correct. It’s the Xians who say that being nice to people is so important. Of course, they have a freakishly hard time displaying niceness or patience or pretty much any of the so-called Xian virtues, but what they mean I think is that it’s important for all non-Xians to be nice and patient with them. Somehow, I dont think they’ve read their Bible properly, but what do I know about the counseling of Christ? I’ve only pissed in their Cheerios a couple of dozen times here on the SD–that gives me what? four hundred-odd more times to go before they can attack me? Does the counter start over again if they jump on me before I hit 490? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/27 "2006-12-25T00:54:08Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] There. That’s four ways that Christianity hurts me. [/QUOTE] Actually, that would be _zero_ reasons. But nice try! You almost came close to a real reason on some of those points. Incidentally, are you still trying to pass yourself off as a college professor? How’s that working for you? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/28 "2006-12-25T00:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] If every future hour spent composing homilies by every cleric in the country were devoted to actually serving the poor and needy directly, that would be a lot of man-hours of doing actual good. [/QUOTE] And if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Again, excluded middle. The composition of homilies is not an injury to you or to society, as it is not an either/or proposition which prevents clerics from serving directly. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/29 "2006-12-25T00:55:50Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] C’mon man. Post #2. Where is the harm? (Where is the love?) [/QUOTE] That’s easy, practically self-explanatory. It eats away at my time, having to argue with Xians all day long. You don’t think I could be accomplishing something useful with my energy here? I’m the middle of a chapter where I’ve just thought of a line of dialogue that needs to be inserted into a speech, but can’t figure out where. So I started this thread to clear my mind, but Jesus it’s time-consuming. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/30 "2006-12-25T01:01:08Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] That’s easy, practically self-explanatory. It eats away at my time, having to argue with Xians all day long. [/QUOTE] Hey, here’s a quick and simple solution to your problem: Shut the fuck up. See? No more time wasted! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/31 "2006-12-25T01:04:08Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Christianity is a species of ignorance. [/QUOTE] I’m still wondering what Christians are ignorant of, exactly. Except I’m afraid you’re going to say something that amounts to “ignorant of the fact that they’re _wrong_!!” ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/32 "2006-12-25T01:11:02Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] I’m still wondering what Christians are ignorant of, exactly. Except I’m afraid you’re going to say something that amounts to “ignorant of the fact that they’re _wrong_!!” [/QUOTE] See post # 10. They’re the ones putting out this bullshit document, about events that supposedly happened a couple of thousand years ago, and claiming that it’s all perfectly true (except whenever science proves that belief insustainable, in which case it’s only symbolically true, but true nonetheless) but they can’t actually back up any of those claims of truth to the satisfaction of anyone who’s already not a believing Xian, and you’re asking ME wherein lies their ignorance? Like I said, Go prove a shred of the Bible, then we can start talking. The burden is on you, and until you bear your burden, kindly STFU. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/33 "2006-12-25T01:11:35Z")
It pains me to say this as an atheist but > [@](#): > > Finally, the single biggest predictor of whether someone will be charitable is their religious participation. From [here](http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216/sr=8-1/qid=1167008969/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2671412-5108042?ie=UTF8&s=books). I would love to see this study disproven, but from what I’ve read it is pretty solid. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/34 "2006-12-25T01:17:36Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You’ve got this precisely ass backwards. All I need do is be tireless and correct. [/quote] How many people have you converted to your way of thinking on these boards? Let me guess - “If they were reasonable people, they’d see I was making sense!” > [@](#): > > It’s the Xians who say that being nice to people is so important. It is? I seem to be saying that. > [@](#): > > Of course, they have a freakishly hard time displaying niceness or patience or pretty much any of the so-called Xian virtues, but what they mean I think is that it’s important for all non-Xians to be nice and patient with them. Somehow, I dont think they’ve read their Bible properly, but what do I know about the counseling of Christ? What do you care if they’re rude? If anything, it’s a good thing, because rudeness means no converts. If they’re casting aspersions left and right, and you’re sitting in the middle calmly ignoring the insults and pointing out fallacies, it’s you who’ll look good. > [@](#): > > I’ve only pissed in their Cheerios a couple of dozen times here on the SD–that gives me what? four hundred-odd more times to go before they can attack me? Does the counter start over again if they jump on me before I hit 490? I honestly don’t know what you mean here. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/35 "2006-12-25T01:19:16Z")
[QUOTE=kimera] It pains me to say this as an atheist but From [here](http://www.amazon.com/Who-Really-Cares-Compassionate-Conservatism/dp/0465008216/sr=8-1/qid=1167008969/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2671412-5108042?ie=UTF8&s=books). I would love to see this study disproven, but from what I’ve read it is pretty solid. [/QUOTE] The author was interviewed on NPR last week. I caught about 20 minutes of the program, and it was pretty good. I bet it’s archived on their site if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/36 "2006-12-25T01:21:26Z")
**Revenant Threshold** **PRR** was referring to the Biblical passage in which Jesus urges his followers to forgive their enemies not seven times, but seventy times seven. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/37 "2006-12-25T01:25:27Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] The burden is on you, and until you bear your burden, kindly STFU. [/QUOTE] Nope. Not on me. I don’t make any claims about the Bible. I don’t give a shit if the Bible’s right or not. The only claims I make are about my experience. And your demand for scientific proof of my experience betrays a profound ignorance of both science and proof. You could test my claims scientifically if you lived my life. That would be replicating the experiment. But since you’re trying to drive a nail with a hacksaw, your demands don’t make any sense. Asking for scientific evidence of Christ in my life is like asking Pat Robinson to confirm the laws of Newton with scripture. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/38 "2006-12-25T01:25:34Z")
[QUOTE=George Kaplin] **Revenant Threshold** **PRR** was referring to the Biblical passage in which Jesus urges his followers to forgive their enemies not seven times, but seventy times seven. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t questioning that Christians say people should be nice. I’m questioning his assertation that it’s just Christians who say people should be nice. I’m an athiest, and I say it too. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/39 "2006-12-25T01:52:24Z")
[Merry Christmas](http://www.comics.com/wash/opus/index.html), **pseudotriton**! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/40 "2006-12-25T02:00:06Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] A preacher can’t make a living if nobody comes back, so they pad out the message with a whole arkload of unnecessary rules and a generous scoop of “we’re good, and they’re bad.” :eek: [/QUOTE] May I suggest you familiarize yourself with a few more religions and their practices? Not all religions have paid clergy and not all religions divide the world into “We {fill in the blank}ians are good and everyone else is bad.” For that matter, not all religions have a, shall we say, overabundance of rules compared to others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492.md?page=3)