# How is it hurting me, Jayjay? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492 "2006-12-24T23:33:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/101 "2006-12-25T22:24:17Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] It’s a pretty good question, I think: Why are Xians on the SD held to a less rigorous standard in discussion than holders of other systems of belief? [/QUOTE] In another [Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=401428), my good pal **Miller** provides fairly damning evidence that at least some (I maintain most) of the SD theists and atheists alike DO in fact exhibit a bias against holders of systems of belief other than Xianity. Can’t thank him enough. (see posts 138 ff.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/102 "2006-12-25T22:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Can’t thank him enough. (see posts 138 ff.) [/QUOTE] Funny, I took it to mean “when you see an asshole, act accordingly.” ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/103 "2006-12-25T22:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] 1. Fighting ignorance of any kind is a virtue in itself. Even if I accomplish nothing for the believers on this website today, I’m helping to set a tone in which advocating atheism isn’t perceived as anything exceptional, and someday kids will grow up in a climate where people just assume that a random person may or may not believe in God, exactly as he chooses, instead of assuming that random person is a weirdo. 2. Christianity is a species of ignorance. It is no more and no less ignorant than belief in Zeus or Baal or worship of the sun. I believe we are all descended from sun-worshippers, and we are all better off for the eradication of the ignorant belief that a giant ball of flaming gas millions of miles away is a sentient being wishing good and ill on the human race. I think the descendents of Christians, and maybe even their children, will regard their beliefs in the same way, and the human race as a whole will be enlightened. 3. I believe much human effort goes into the maintenance of various Christian churches, which I would just as soon see torn to the ground, burnt to bits and the ashes distributed to the winds. But that’s just fantasizing–I’ll gladly settle for their doors being shut and the churches turned over to actual charitable work that will help people in need without yammering nonsense into their skulls. Hungry? Here, eat. Homeless? Come inside this nice safe building and sleep. 4. To say nothing of the education, maintenence, feeding etc. of ministers and priests who live off the people’s subsidy and tax-relief–these are obviously capable people who could easily turn their energies to more useful skills that would help society a damn sight better than wasting their days crafting ingeniously redundant sermons that pretty well accomplish nothing. You want an education? Go to school, for Chrissakes. Don’t listen to these saps blowing smoke up your buttcheeks. There. That’s four ways that Christianity hurts me. [/QUOTE] That’s not just Christianity. That’s organized religion of any flavor. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/104 "2006-12-25T22:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=mstay] People are asking how religion harms us when we’re in the middle of a war on Islamic fundamentalism? Holy fuck. [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s the other way around. Islamic fundamentalists vs. the rest of the world that is not Islamic and damn near everyone else that is. The difference is that they are more than willing to kill people over it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/105 "2006-12-25T22:44:38Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] In another [Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=401428), my good pal **Miller** provides fairly damning evidence that at least some (I maintain most) of the SD theists and atheists alike DO in fact exhibit a bias against holders of systems of belief other than Xianity. Can’t thank him enough. (see posts 138 ff.) [/QUOTE] There really is no end to your fundamental intellectual dishonesty, is there? There’s not one single part of that sentence that’s remotely true, and you damned well know it. Or maybe that’s too harsh? Perhaps you really believe that’s what I said, which would make you almost uniquely stupid in the annals of this board. But I doubt that. You play these games far too consistently and regularly for it to be the product of simple idiocy. No, I’m pretty sure you simply have no respect at all for truth, honesty, and open debate. You’re a sad joke, **prr**. I’m glad that you’ve been able to use one of my posts to further demonstrate that to all and sundry. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/106 "2006-12-25T23:03:42Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > That this board may be more tolerant of theists’ folly than you like does NOT mean it persecutes atheists. > > Actually, isn’t that two separate ways of saying the same thing? Oh, holy Invisible Pink Unicorn, now you’re recycling, in mirror-image, the argument to the Fundie Xtian Yahoos who claim THEY are being “persecuted” in the USA by the evil Liberals. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/107 "2006-12-25T23:33:32Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] There really is no end to your fundamental intellectual dishonesty, is there? There’s not one single part of that sentence that’s remotely true, and you damned well know it. Or maybe that’s too harsh? Perhaps you really believe that’s what I said, which would make you almost uniquely stupid in the annals of this board. But I doubt that. You play these games far too consistently and regularly for it to be the product of simple idiocy. No, I’m pretty sure you simply have no respect at all for truth, honesty, and open debate. You’re a sad joke, **prr**. I’m glad that you’ve been able to use one of my posts to further demonstrate that to all and sundry. [/QUOTE] What part are you now claiming to have been lying about, **Miller**? You clearly distinguish between insults to Scientologists and Catholics, not because of any distinction between the two creeds but simply because your mother is a Catholic, and you defend her honor vigorously [Groucho: "which is more than she ever did’] but couldn’t care less about insults to Scientologists, whom you dont know personally. If that’s not following one set of rules for insults allowed to Scientologists as a creed and a whole other standard for those allowed to Catholics, I dont know what is. Your own personal agenda, and not any important principle, sits behind the ways you allow religion to be discussed, and I believe your position is in fact the default position for the Straight Dope in general. Thanks again for your help in making my point clear, even if you lack several important clues as to what’s being discussed here. Take it from me, you’ve been a big help to me. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/108 "2006-12-25T23:51:45Z")
You just don’t get it, do you, **prr**. You’re insisting that your personal metaphysics (the Materialist school of thought) must be imposed on everyone else, or else we are engaged in promoting ignorance. That is exactly what the fundamentalists, of either Christianity or Islam, are doing. Except that they are trying to do it by law, or by violence. Neither of which you have offered. Yet. But the same damned intolerant “I’m right and I need to force it on you, for your own good” attitude. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/109 "2006-12-26T00:37:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Both the named posters portray themselves as fundy atheists, but **Der Trihs** is not a troll. Fundy atheists? I like it. I can see the Jack Chick equivalent comic now: “You’re going to NOT go to hell if you don’t follow your LORD! I really don’t have a belief for Woden or Zeus either. Don’t even ask me about Quetzalcoatl!” > [@scottkris](#): > > Let’s (for the sake of argument) say that there IS a God; I don’t know of a single religion that condemns you for your choice of color, but many that do for your choice of god. If you are wrong about your aesthetics, no big deal. If you are wrong about God…well, I leave the obvious results up to you. That was sorta the point. He was saying **IF** they did think one color was righteous and another was wicked then it’d be analogous to say making fun of a religion is like making fun of one’s choice in colors. But there isn’t a general color belief like that so it isn’t. And Pascal’s Wager (if that’s what you’re leading to) is a very bad reason to believe in a god(s). If there’s an extradimensional entity who will punish us after we die for not believing in him/her/it/them then the chances of you being right are extremely small. There are thousands of religions and (generally) the only reason one believe what one does is due to geography. What if the worshippers of the great JuJu up the mountain are right? Or the Neo Cult of Mars? Too bad you were born in America then, you’re screwed. > [@Monty](#): > > Islamic Fundamentalism does not automatically equal terrorism, no more than Christian Fundamentalism does. Both versions of Fundamentalism have their terrorists, to be sure, but that does not make the current war one against a religion. Currently the Islamic fundies are winning the terror count on account of no opponent. But that is another problem – it’s very easy to square terrorism and violence with both the Bible and the Qur’an. Just be **really** thankful you weren’t born a woman in the Middle East. > [@Polycarp](#): > > You’re insisting that your personal metaphysics (the Materialist school of thought) must be imposed on everyone else, or else we are engaged in promoting ignorance. > > That is exactly what the fundamentalists, of either Christianity or Islam, are doing. Except that they are trying to do it by law, or by violence. Neither of which you have offered. Yet. > > But the same damned intolerant “I’m right and I need to force it on you, for your own good” attitude. :eek: Where did **prr** say any of the above? And if he did, then he’s a fool in that regard. But, as has been repeated on this board maybe 82,000 times by atheists, we don’t care what you believe. If you want to believe, as something like 40% of the American public does, that Jesus is going to fly out of the clouds and save the day within the next 50 years\* then go ahead, you friggin’ lunatic^. But when this starts seeping into politics and day to day life and how you interact with the world we have a **big** problem. - Look up in the sky! Is it a bird, a plane? No, it’s [Super Jesus!](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/at2000/stories/religion/index.html) And don’t look at [this one](http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020701/story.html), it’s way too depressing. ^ I am not calling you, **Polycarp** , a lunatic. Unless, that is, you believe the previous statement about Super Jesus. Then you are, in my mind, a lunatic. I hope you would extend the same courtesy to someone preparing for and seeing signs of Ragnarok and the coming of Loki et al. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/110 "2006-12-26T01:02:00Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] There really is no end to your fundamental intellectual dishonesty, is there? [/QUOTE] He’s getting off on martyrdom. Check out the [breakups](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=401120) thread in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/111 "2006-12-26T01:11:03Z")
[QUOTE=mstay] Where did **prr** say any of the above? [/QUOTE] Exactly. Thank you, **mstay**. **Polycarp** is free to believe any foolishness he likes, and I don’t object to the fact of his beliefs, the foolishness therein, or anything else. In fact, I wish him the very best in his pursuit of even more illogical or insubstantial objects of worship. Go for it, **Poly**! But here on the SD, if I’m permitted to ask you a question, just to clarify that your brand of specious foolishness is really saying what I think I’m hearing you say (when you’ve chosen to identify yourself publically as a believer in said specious foolishness), I’m hopeful that you will be encouraged by the PTB to give me something resembling an answer. If you prefer to answer, or to give a non-responsive answer (and that’s certainly the wiser choice to giving an honest one that opens you up to general ridicule), I hope I can get further clarifications. My complaint about the SD’s policy on opting out of fighting ignorance here, is that when you retreat into non-responsive answers or otherwise evade the questions, which you have every right to do and i wish you’d do that more often than you do, it’s usually your questioner who gets called on the carpet for displaying bad manners, or poor posture, or lousy personal hygience, or some nonsense, rather than you for failing to provide the simplest data. But, please: believe whatever you like. Your beliefs are a source of unfailing amusement to me and my kind. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/112 "2006-12-26T01:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] My complaint about the SD’s policy on opting out of fighting ignorance here, is that when you retreat into non-responsive answers or otherwise evade the questions, which you have every right to do and i wish you’d do that more often than you do, it’s usually your questioner who gets called on the carpet for displaying bad manners, or poor posture, or lousy personal hygience, or some nonsense, rather than you for failing to provide the simplest data. [/QUOTE] When the fuck has this ever happened? Why do you insist that it is policy? ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/113 "2006-12-26T01:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=mstay] ^ I am not calling you, **Polycarp** , a lunatic. Unless, that is, you believe the previous statement about Super Jesus. Then you are, in my mind, a lunatic. I hope you would extend the same courtesy to someone preparing for and seeing signs of Ragnarok and the coming of Loki et al. [/QUOTE] Hi **mstay** For the record, at least by your definition, [**Polycarp** is a certifiable loon.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=226859) A lot of people around here know this already, but Polycarp’s sighting of the second coming was from before you joined and I didn’t think Polycarp was going to self identify himself. Poly has since admitted error, but knowing that, you can give his subjective experiences with the Almighty as much weight as you see fit. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/114 "2006-12-26T01:28:56Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] When the fuck has this ever happened? Why do you insist that it is policy? [/QUOTE] Virtually every trainwreck deriving from an exchange between **badchad \*\* and** poly\*\* devolves around the issue of **badchad** ’s supposedly rude or intemperature or unpleasant or discomforting manner of phrasing, which (even if it were true that **badchad** were any ruder than his adversaries, which he often isn’t) is not the point of the discussion. They become officially sanctioned hijacks, and they’re rather tedious. You want to discuss religion, **badchad**? Here, have a generous helping of “You suck,” “You’re mean,” “I didn’t like the way you said that” which we will offer you without fear of official sanction, more or less infinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/115 "2006-12-26T01:33:13Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] You want to discuss religion, **badchad**? Here, have a generous helping of “You suck,” “You’re mean,” “I didn’t like the way you said that” which we will offer you without fear of official sanction, more or less infinitely. [/QUOTE] In GD? Posters say “you suck” to\*\* badchad\*\* in GD and it is officially sanctioned? If you’re talking about the Pit, so what? Religion is no more sacrosant than any other topic here. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/116 "2006-12-26T01:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] In GD? Posters say “you suck” to\*\* badchad\*\* in GD and it is officially sanctioned?. [/QUOTE] Not literally. But GDs have turned into discussions of **badchad** ’s intemperate phrasing, and such idiotic hijacks are permitted to go on more or less endlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/117 "2006-12-26T01:42:47Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] [**Polycarp** is a certifiable loon.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=226859) [/QUOTE] Even IF that were actually true, I’d a million times rather spend time with **Polycarp** , who I have actually met in person, and has always been kindness itself to me, than a humorless wannabe martyr with a persecution complex like you. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/118 "2006-12-26T01:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Not literally. But GDs have turned into discussions of **badchad** ’s intemperate phrasing, and such idiotic hijacks are permitted to go on more or less endlessly. [/QUOTE] So we can dispense with the idea that the mods allow other posters to insult \*\*badchad \*\*in GD, as well as the idea that said allowance is the result of official sanction? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/119 "2006-12-26T01:49:17Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Even IF that were actually true, I’d a million times rather spend time with **Polycarp** , who I have actually met in person, and has always been kindness itself to me, than a humorless wannabe martyr with a persecution complex like you. [/QUOTE] Hi **Guin** , I have spent some time with **pseudotriton ruber ruber** , nice and interesting guy. \*\*Polycarp \*\* argues religion in a way I find disturbing. So is this a popularity poll now? For the record, when \*\*Polycarp \*\* is not defending religion I find him very likable and even when he is defending religion I find him interesting. I just want to know what \*\*Guin’s \*\* point is? Jim ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2006, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492/120 "2006-12-26T02:09:32Z")
Not a popularity poll. I’m simply saying that I have never seen **Polycarp** treat anyone the way **pseudotriton ruber ruber** has, nor have I ever seen him act like such an immature, insecure little brat. And if **Polycarp** is disturbing when it comes to religion, you’ve been extremely sheltered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-hurting-me-jayjay/385492.md?page=7)