# How is it legal for the Straight Dope to sponsor a campaign against Fred Phelps? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 23, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359 "2001-09-23T18:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/1 "2001-09-23T18:08:47Z")
Sorry, I’m coming in late to this. How is it legal for the “Turn Hate into Love” website to have the Straight Dope all over it? Sure makes it look like it’s the Straight Dope’s campaign. After all the hoo-haw in days past about how “the Chicago _Reader_ sponsors this site and we have to be very very careful what we say or they might get sued”, what happens if Fred decides to come after Cecil? Seriously. ☹ Lib’s thread. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87507&pagenumber=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=87507&pagenumber=4) The website. [http://www.ourdawson.com/phelps/phelps\_watch.asp](http://www.ourdawson.com/phelps/phelps_watch.asp) > [@](#): > > Soon, we’ll have a web site and domain of our own. In the meantime, visit the discussions at Straight Dope where we fight ignorance. Hate is just about as ignorant a thing as there is. > > So far, we have $2,205.00 in pledges! > > If You Would Like To Help > > Soon, we will have a way for you to enter your own pledges and offers of resources right here. In the meantime, visit the discussions at Straight Dope, and enroll there. And the words “Straight Dope” link to Lib’s thread. Makes me nervous. Well? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/2 "2001-09-23T18:14:31Z")
It’s not a website. It’s a page on the OurDawson website that honors our grandson. Give me a few minutes, and I’ll have it replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/3 "2001-09-23T18:18:10Z")
Also, it’s not my thread. It’s Mishel’s. Were it mine, I would ask to have it closed. Though I would likely be ignored. There’s _still_ an [open thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=88439) in the Pit that I had requested to be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/4 "2001-09-23T18:22:21Z")
Here ya go, Duck. Is [this](http://www.ourdawson.com/phelps/phelps_watch.asp) better? Congratulations, Fred. ---
**Author:** ![schief2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@schief2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schief2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/5 "2001-09-23T18:28:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Removed Due To Fear Wowsers. Uh, not to presume to speak for **DDG** , but I believe the concern was that by putting “The Straight Dope” on there, certain wrong-headed, potentially litigious groups might get the impression the project was officially connected to The Straight Dope/The Chicago Reader. Prolly taking their name off the page woulda been enough. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/6 "2001-09-23T18:31:02Z")
May I suggest changing the text to read “visit [code for thread] to see the discussion which led to the creation of this site”. Not that I’m a mod, lawyer or American. And **lib** , may I also suggest that whilst many people have great sympathy for your cause, you shouldn’t take their lack of enthusiasm _relative to yours_ as criticism of your aims or priorities. That said, I’ll be looking to find a way to contribute. [added in preview] Seriously, lib. Don’t look for enemies. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/7 "2001-09-23T18:38:59Z")
I meant to italicise “look” in that last sentence (and add my sig). ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/8 "2001-09-23T18:44:02Z")
Oh, Jesus. I should have known better than to get involved in any project that has your participation, **Lib**. One person asked one fucking question, which question has not been answered. How the hell do you operate in day-to-day life? Just tell me where to send the check, so I can end my association with this, and you. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/9 "2001-09-23T19:00:34Z")
Manny, you need to ask John where to send your money. But I think the slogan here should be changed to “Timidly wishing ignorance would just go away.” I’m fed up with this. All this infantile sniping and bickering while that monster gets away with posting daily updates on how long Matthew Shepard has been in hell. And he’s going to Washington with his gang to terrorize the family of “fag pilot” David Charlebois. I’m not looking for enemies. I’m looking for help. And I can see that I’m in the wrong place. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/10 "2001-09-23T19:12:29Z")
You lie. That is a deliberate, horrible lie, and I will not stand by whilst you slander **Duck Duck Goose** like that. Concerned for the well being of this site, she asks a question. A question. Here, I’ll type it again slowly so you understand: Q. U. E. S. T. I. O. N. And it is _you_ who overreacts and pulls the plug. Not the Reader. Not her. You are the guardian of ignorance today. And you are the ally of Fred Phelps. Apologize to **DDG**. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/11 "2001-09-23T19:16:08Z")
Duck, I apologize. Manny, please ask John to advise how I should transfer the data. I hereby give permission for him to e-mail me. Admins, please remove my posting privileges. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/12 "2001-09-23T19:24:53Z")
You are, however, alienating people at the same time. I understand that you are not trying to do so, and that your heart is in the right place, but it is happening. For example, in this thread, **DDG** asks the completely reasonable question of whether it’s right to give the impression that the Chicago Reader is officially involved with this cause, and whether you are incurring any legal liability upon them. I shouldn’t have to explain to you that using the name “Straight Dope” in a manner that gives the impression that the owner of that name has taken an official stance on the matter, especially when it could subject it to a lawsuit, is a mild form of coercion. Also, you have to accept that even good people may prefer to do other things to fight evil, ignorance, homophobia, Fred Phelps, or whatever. Your cause is good and just, but by no means is joining it a moral imperative. Please reread your posts on this issue and see if you can understand where you may have aggravated others along the way. Keep in mind that love would dictate taking it upon yourself to make it easier for others to do good. God go with you always, and you where He needs you. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/13 "2001-09-23T19:34:16Z")
My last post was written in response to **Libertarian** ’s second to last post, without seeing anything after it. > [@](#): > > Admins, please remove my posting privileges. ☹ I’ll miss you around here. Take care. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/14 "2001-09-23T19:37:18Z")
At the very least, Lib, you need to take a break. I’ll remove your privileges. your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/15 "2001-09-23T20:41:39Z")
Umm. Just so _I_ know, are we doing anything officially wrong there? Do we need to back off the topic completely, take it outside of these MBs, just lay low for a bit, just watch that we don’t cross the line into slander, or what? Speaking only for myself, I’d like some guidelines from our hosts. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/16 "2001-09-23T20:49:14Z")
Don’t say the Straight Dope or the Chicago Reader endorses something unless you get it straight from us. (No pun intended.) This anti-Fred Phelps project is a fine topic for discussion if anything new or worthwhile can be brought to the table. This does not count hectoring people to join the cause or excoriating those that choose not to, I don’t want to see any more of that. Is this sufficient to 'splain it all? your humble TubaDiva Administrator ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/17 "2001-09-23T20:55:27Z")
Ah, OK, thank you. I wasn’t aware he’d done that – makes sense. So basically, we don’t have to shut nuthin’ down, we just have to make it clear that _we’re_ doing it, not the Reader or the Straight Dope. And I see Lib’s given himself a time-out for his histrionics, so hopefully part two of your explanation isn’t anything you’re going to have to worry about. Thank you for the quickety-quick answer, too. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/18 "2001-09-23T20:59:58Z")
Dear Well-Meaning **Libertarian** , I hope you will come back to read this reply, as it may help you understand that no one was attempting to undermine your cause by inquiring as to legality of using _The Straight Dope_ name on your website. When I designed _The People Pages_, I had to get permission from _The Chicago Reader_’s legal department to use _The Straight Dope_ name on my website. Permission was granted, so long as my site contained the following disclaimer: > [@](#): > > _The People of The Straight Dope_ pages are not a part of _The Straight Dope_, nor are these pages meant to represent _The Straight Dope_, their owners or affiliates. _The Straight Dope_ is a registered trademark of _The Chicago Reader, Inc_. My point is, that no one is singling you or your website out, merely because of the content. I don’t think there could _be_ anything more innocuous than _The People Pages_, but I _still_ had to get permission to use the name, **first**. Common sense should tell you that a simple request for permission is prudent before you link _any_ website directly to a For Profit business. If there is even the slightest chance that _The Chicago Reader_ could be sued because it might be construed that they are in any way endorsing the content on your page, you have an obligation to contact them, and they have a right to deny you permission without the appropriate disclaimers on your site. And I should think that, as a caring member of this community, that you would _want_ to protect them on this issue. Best of luck and I hope you reconsider. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/19 "2001-09-23T21:24:21Z")
I should note that even though we’re linked on the SD front page, we needed to do the same thing with Teemings since it is an unofficial publication to guard the Reader from any resposnibility in case we go nuts (which these days is quite likely.) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2001, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359/20 "2001-09-23T22:48:46Z")
[_peering out over edge of foxhole_] [sub]sheesh[/sub] ☹ Um, it truly wasn’t my intention to make Lib take down the entire website. ☹ I just thought that, knowing the way Fred’s “mind” works, such as it is, :rolleyes: it wasn’t entirely outside of the realms of possibility that he might decide that Cecil Adams (“whut kinda candy-ass pansy name is that–_Cecil_, huh?”) and the Chicago _Reader_ (“oh, an _alternative_ newspaper, huh? Probly got Singles ads for faggots in there, huh?”) might make a couple of nice, litigation-friendly targets, not to mention being featured prominently on _his_ website, God help us. And then it would be goodbye to the SDMB. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-it-legal-for-the-straight-dope-to-sponsor-a-campaign-against-fred-phelps/83359.md?page=2)