# How is LA Mayor Villaraigosa doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076 "2006-03-27T14:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/21 "2006-04-02T17:23:07Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Me gullible? You throw around stuff like an illegal immigrant civil war and tout a lost Proposition that cost a Governor a political race. I’m googling wrong, it’s 187 that actually passed. Sometimes you win some, sometimes you lose. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/22 "2006-04-02T17:31:46Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > YOU made the assertion that a majority of the voters agreed with Villaraigosa. No I did not. More or less, I made the assertion that most protestors were legal residents opposed to the more draconian of several immigration bills being proposed. And that they were probably be Villaraigosa supporters. I still don’t think that most of the protestors were illegal. And they’re are no statistics, proving that either way. Except from man on the street interviews that you brought up and entirely discount. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/23 "2006-04-02T17:32:35Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I don’t know what California welfare system is like. But illegal aliens aren’t eligible for anything but WIC and indegent care in Texas. The Civil War with illegal aliens? That one’s a little out there, no? > > Didn’t Prop.186 lose? And wasn’t that part of Wilson’s downfall? Prop 187 won, and was carried by like 67% if memory serves, including a bare majority of hispanic voters, maybe 51%. 187 was pretty draconian. It would have denied public school to children of illegals etc. Don’t forget, an illegal woman can come to the US and as long as the kid is born on US soil, voila! or, um, Ole! The kid is a US citizen eligible for the raft. The prop was scuttled in a back room deal, although the LA Times to this day maintains the lie that it was abjudicated on. Admittedly some of it it wouldn’t have passed muster, but still, the voters deserved their day in court. Civil war was a reference to the black citizen, who has endured a whole lot of shiat and is being pushed aside again. Maybe you didn’t get that, you sound a little tired. Get some sleep. Wilson was a poor politician. Remember though, that part of Arnold’s campaign was trashing Grey Davis’ plan to grant the driver’s licence to illegals. This is someting he opposed, and to his credit has remained firm on. He is right about it being a national security issue. /still likes the Govenator //he tried to tell them ///they wouldn’t listen ////financial experts create whole new class of junk bond to reflect the stupidity that is California /////wouldn’t live anywhere else //////polluting The Dope with stupid Fark slashies meme ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/24 "2006-04-02T17:35:12Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > We don’t run our democracy based on noisy crowds. I disagree. At times, legislation is certainly affected by noisy crowds. That is how this whole immigration debate started. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/25 "2006-04-02T17:41:17Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > 187 was pretty draconian. It would have denied public school to children of illegals etc. So it wasn’t passed in its entirety. And it was draconian like the legislation that was protested. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/26 "2006-04-02T17:49:12Z")
“I still don’t think that most of the protestors were illegal.” I bet it was about half and half. As I said in another thread, the only ones I saw were a bunch of High School kids, so maybe less illigal and more youthful ignorance. This was several days after the big protests. They were parading down Van Nuys Blvd., after stopping northbound traffic on the 405 earlier in the day, throwing bottles and rocks to stop freeway traffic so they could block it. They were moving along in clumps and weren’t averse to hanging out at the fast food joints along the route. Regarding the huge crowd around city hall? If you were illegal, and you thought your future was on the line, would you come? I am sure they were well represented. No-one disputes the presence of several million illegals in SoCal alone. It may surpise you, but I am in favor of free speech for anyone visiting this country for whatever reason. Just let them accept the responsibilities that come with the rights. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/27 "2006-04-02T17:50:40Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I disagree. At times, legislation is certainly affected by noisy crowds. That is how this whole immigration debate started. Noisy crowds can gain the sympaty of voters. This is how we lost the Vietnam Conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/28 "2006-04-02T17:53:51Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > So it wasn’t passed in its entirety. And it was draconian like the legislation that was protested. No, it was rejected out of hand, in a back room deal, made by Ghey Davis. Individual elements were never abjudicated, and some of them might have stood muster. As far as denying education to the children of illegals, is it the responsibility of the US taxpayer to educate the school-age population of the third world? If so, open your wallet wide. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/29 "2006-04-02T17:57:56Z")
And I’m sorry. I should have put “draconian” in these little mockery quotes. It was a word used by the supporters of the illegals in the 187 campaign. You know, the campaign that most hispanics voted against the illegals in. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/30 "2006-04-02T17:58:39Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > Noisy crowds can gain the sympaty of voters. This is how we lost the Vietnam Conflict. I hope you do not wish we had **won** it! Sometimes the “noisy crowds” are right. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/31 "2006-04-02T18:18:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I hope you do not wish we had **won** it! > > Sometimes the “noisy crowds” are right. Let’s not open that can of worms at this juncture. It’s good enough we fought it, and I’ll leave it at that. 😃 We have already jacked this thread into a whole another subject. Allow me to get it back on track. Villaraigosa won’t doom LA, nor will he save it. Such is not in the hands of mere politicians. His enthusiasm for building the subway to Santa Monica is admirable. If he can get the ball rolling on that (and by that I mean digging be commencing dammit) and if he can run a relatively clean administration, his legacy will be assured. I would love it if we could remember Villaraigosa and Bradley for the vision that is and should be the Red Line, and forget about some of the other things. In the long run, getting that done is a more important thing for the future of LA than any other issue. It will let us have our Manhattan. One only need compare the Hollywood Blvd. of today with that of the bad old days before the subway to see the potential through the Mid-Wilshire/Beverly Hills/Santa Monica corridor. And clean up the LAPD. Could you do that? Didn’t think so. :wally Oh, well. I asked. Maybe Santa will bring it to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/32 "2006-04-02T18:25:07Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > And clean up the LAPD. Could you do that? Didn’t think so. :wally Oh, well. I asked. Maybe Santa will bring it to me. I’m no Angeleno. From what I’ve heard, the LAPD has often been accused of brutality, and of an “us-vs.-them” attitude towards the public (in fact, British guidebooks say, or used to say, words to the effect of, “Los Angeles police officers are not the Bobbies; do not ask them for directions”), but it has never been accused of corruption. What is there to “clean up”? ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/33 "2006-04-02T18:52:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’m no Angeleno. From what I’ve heard, the LAPD has often been accused of brutality, and of an “us-vs.-them” attitude towards the public (in fact, British guidebooks say, or used to say, words to the effect of, “Los Angeles police officers are not the Bobbies; do not ask them for directions”), but it has never been accused of corruption. What is there to “clean up”? Um, never been occused of actual corruption!!! Dear Mr. Brain Glutton: Engorge your brain even further by googleing “rampart scandal”. The us-vs-them is palpable. When I first moved to LA I was living around 3rd and Vermont. Not a great neighborhood, but not as bad as some think. A few days after I moved in, there were cops and helicopters and the whold rigamarole. I went outside and asked a cop what was the problem. He said it was none of my business. I said it was my business becasue I lived there. He said: “If you live here, YOU are the problem.” I don’t live there anymore, and I can say that after that, I didn’t pay much attention to all the fuss that went down. There have been efforts to clean up the LAPD, and they are probably better than they were, but there is a long way to go. My GF walks along a street that is close to Sunset Blvd. (yeah the famous one). The traffic cops bust people on Sunset, usually non-whites, and do virtually no enforcement on the side streets in the area. People cruse through stop signs, speed, everything. They don’t care becasue they know there is zero enforcement. I have complained, neighbors have, nothing doing. The cops would rather shake down “suspicious” people on Sunset who are just driving down the street while black or brown or whatever, than protect my girlfriend innocently walking her dog, from jackasses doing 50 on a side street and blowing stop signs, while thumping stereo and talking on cell phone. I know that a lot of police are good folks, but a lot of them aren’t and someday I will start a pit thread with all my stupid cop stories. Oh, and I asked them for directions one time. They rolled up the window and moved out! Roger that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/34 "2006-04-02T18:52:40Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > Prop 187 won, and was carried by like 67% if memory serves, including a bare majority of hispanic voters, maybe 51%. Your memory does not serve. From [here:](http://mediamatters.org/items/200508250009) > [@](#): > > But only slightly more than a quarter of Latino voters favored Proposition 187, and the Latino support it received was not decisive in its passage. An analysis by the Field Research Corp. of exit polls conducted in November 1994 by the Los Angeles Times and Voter News Service found that Latinos voted heavily against Proposition 187 (73 percent to 27 percent). Data from that analysis, as well as vote totals published in the November 10, 1994, Los Angeles Times, indicate that the roughly 190,000 Latinos who voted for the measure (out of more than 700,000 Latinos who voted) was a far smaller sum than the more than 1.4 million vote (59 percent to 41 percent) margin of victory. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/35 "2006-04-02T19:04:44Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Your memory does not serve. From [here:](http://mediamatters.org/items/200508250009) Media Matters is hardly objective. Will investigate! ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/36 "2006-04-02T19:11:01Z")
Oh, and they are sourcing from the LA Times exit polls. Double not objective. This is the same paper that claims to this day that 187 was rejected by the courts. If some illegal loving farker out there can refer me the case number where this occured so I can get a transcript, I will STFU. Otherwise, I am a better source than the LA Times. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/37 "2006-04-02T19:46:46Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > Um, never been occused of actual corruption!!! Well, the last time I read up on this was right after the LA Riots. The article I read (in the _Village Voice,_ I think) made the point that while the LAPD had in many ways a dysfunctional relationship with the people of the city it was policing, it had never been accused of corruption. Perhaps things have degenerated still further since then. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/38 "2006-04-02T19:59:10Z")
> [@Happy Wanderer](#): > > Oh, and they are sourcing from the LA Times exit polls. Double not objective. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > This is the same paper that claims to this day that 187 was rejected by the courts. If some illegal loving farker out there can refer me the case number where this occured so I can get a transcript, I will STFU. Otherwise, I am a better source than the LA Times. No, you aren’t. Case CV 94-7569 MRP. Here’s [the decision](http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/government/187.html). ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/39 "2006-04-02T20:00:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, the last time I read up on this was right after the LA Riots. The article I read (in the _Village Voice,_ I think) made the point that while the LAPD had in many ways a dysfunctional relationship with the people of the city it was policing, it had never been accused of corruption. Perhaps things have degenerated still further since then. Um, so you read an article in the “Voice” 13 years ago and that’s the last you heard? And you are commenting. Ok. The idea that the LAPD has ever been anything but one of the worst deparments is a testimony to the propaganda power of the great Jack Webb. Ever heard of Daryl Gates? He who said “Black people aren’t normal?”. The Rodney King beating? Jeez. It’s no wonder the city wound up in flames again. It is the ulimate disgrace for a Chief of Police to resign when his city is in flames. Notice the guy has no real job? He did local talk radio for crying out loud. It’s because no-one will hire him. For dog catcher. Rampart was all about corruption. They rented corners to crack dealers by the hour. I was on Vermont south of the 10 Freeway stopped at a light next to a bus bench. An LAPD unit with two officers was right behind me. Next to me a guy opened his jacket and was selling vials of crack openly in plain view of the police with no attempt to hide the activity. By the time the light changed, the guy had compleded a transaction and had initated another. The light tuirned green, and the cops and I kept rolling. If you look into the San Bernandino County Sherriff’s Department you will find a lot of payola from the Mexican drug mobs. The war on drugs cultivates this nonsense everywhere you look, just like the good old days of Al Capone. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076/40 "2006-04-02T20:11:12Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > :rolleyes: > > No, you aren’t. Case CV 94-7569 MRP. Here’s [the decision](http://www.courttv.com/archive/legaldocs/government/187.html). Baaaaap! Close but no cigar. This was an initial decision that struck down portions of the law. The full law was never ruled on. None of these initial decisions underwent any subsequent review. Davis swept it all away. Your powers are impressive, but you are not a Jedi yet. ffffff paaah ffffff paaah Join me on the dark side! And don’t match wits with a transpanted Chicagoan who follows California politics really closely. Like a Chicagoan. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-la-mayor-villaraigosa-doing/350076.md?page=3)