# How is Mason1972's example worse than the Zimmerman shooting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614 "2018-12-05T15:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/261 "2018-12-08T01:41:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Martin is not accused of any crime, so it’s irrelevant. But I certainly don’t think someone who’s dead should be posthumously convicted of a crime, so to the extent it matters, of course I do. Then you claim that Zimmerman is a cold blooded murder. You’re not accusing Trayvon of a crime, ergo you concede that Trayvon did not assault Zimmerman (that would be a crime) ergo Zimmerman killed Trayvon in cold blood. Right? Or are you actually accusing Trayvon of a crime? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/262 "2018-12-08T01:54:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Then you claim that Zimmerman is a cold blooded murder. You’re not accusing Trayvon of a crime, ergo you concede that Trayvon did not assault Zimmerman (that would be a crime) ergo Zimmerman killed Trayvon in cold blood. Right? > > Or are you actually accusing Trayvon of a crime? I’m pretty sure he means that we don’t hold trials for dead people, so Trayvon is not on trial. I don’t think your “ergo” follows at all. There are plenty of people who are now dead, and therefore not accused of a crime, whose actions still gave justification to self-defense shootings. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/263 "2018-12-08T01:56:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > No, they don’t. You keep claiming they do, but the vast majority of people in this thread don’t read it that way. So either you’re some super persecuted genius, or you’re WRONG. Given your misunderstanding above, I don’t think you should be holding yourself up as the arbiter of what the “vast majority of people in this thread” think. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/264 "2018-12-08T04:03:16Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In what way was he not just walking home? Transcript excerpt from Post 116: Hey, we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. .. That’s what Zimmerman said on the phone. Apparently something looked suspicious about Martin’s actions and, as a recent arrival to the complex, he was not a familiar face to Zimmerman. I asked earlier, did anyone claim Zimmerman harassed residents or visitors of any color as part of NW activities? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/265 "2018-12-08T05:46:40Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Transcript excerpt from Post 116: > Hey, we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. … > > That’s what Zimmerman said on the phone. Apparently something looked suspicious … In what way was he not just walking home? ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/266 "2018-12-08T08:55:37Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In what way was he not just walking home? Why do you think that he was? Never mind. Here’s a suggestion. Go read the Wikipedia article on the shooting. Don’t skip paragraphs, start at the beginning and learn new (to you) information that is helpfully supported by online citations. Have a good weekend! ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/267 "2018-12-08T10:59:40Z")
I posted at lot about the Zimmerman trial at the time, because Zimmerman’s testimony is so full of holes I’m surprised loose change didn’t fall out. I’m not going to re-hash all of it. But for starters - Zimmerman’s testimony about the altercation does not match where Martin’s body ended up, nor does the timeline match up based on the transcript of the 911 call. Zimmerman claims he was almost back to his truck when Martin approached him from the other direction, and then ‘sucker punched’ him, with Zimmerman claiming he fell back towards the truck. But Martin ended up dead well down the path in a completely different direction. It’s pretty clear that Zimmerman is lying about where the altercation took place because he wants to make it seem like he was innocently heading back to his truck when he was ‘sucker punched’. Also worth asking why if Martin was going to ‘sucker punch’ Zimmerman, Martin would ruin the element of surprise by talking to him first. Finally - also probably worth mentioning that the team of prosecutors were unbelievably incompetent. The entire case was an absolute train wreck. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/268 "2018-12-08T13:45:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure he means that we don’t hold trials for dead people, so Trayvon is not on trial. I don’t think your “ergo” follows at all. There are plenty of people who are now dead, and therefore not accused of a crime, whose actions still gave justification to self-defense shootings. Exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/269 "2018-12-08T15:15:27Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Also worth asking why if Martin was going to ‘sucker punch’ Zimmerman, Martin would ruin the element of surprise by talking to him first. You’ve clearly never been in a real world fist fight. Go visit [Worldstarhiphop: Breaking News | Music Videos | Entertainment News | Hip Hop News](http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/) to see how a fight really transpires. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/270 "2018-12-08T15:21:58Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Why do you think that he was? Evidence suggests that, prior to the encounter, Martin was just walking home. Change the time frame by 30 seconds (Zimmerman left the store 30 seconds earlier or later) and, so far as we know, nothing at all would have happened. In that respect, I fail to understand how Martin was not just walking home. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/271 "2018-12-08T15:30:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In another thread, **Mason1972** posted this rather unsettling post: > > Resoundingly, we all proceeded to agree that this was a horrible tragedy rather than an example of positive gun news. I’m very proud of the gun supporters in that thread who hastened to condemn this police shooting of an innocent civilian. > > And yet, some of these same people defended Zimmerman when he murdered Trayvon Martin. Please explain to me how the Zimmerman killing is more justified than this one, considering: > > [ul] > [li]Neither Martin nor the victim in this case were committing any crimes.[/li][li]Martin was unarmed, and posed no threat to Zimmerman. The homeowner in this case was armed, and ignoring police instructions. While he did this because he was mostly deaf, the police had no way of knowing this.[/li][li]Zimmerman is a civilian who was explicitly told by Dispatch not to follow Trayvon Martin. This police officer was responding to an actual crime that was being committed.[/li][/ul] > > I’m very much hoping you guys can provide a reasonable explanation for why you’d be totally fine with Trayvon Martin being shot (or at least, unwilling to criticize Zimmerman’s actions) while this other case is a tragedy. I’d like to hope that there’s more going on here than the race of the victims. > > EDITED TO ADD: I realize I didn’t explicitly state my point of view. I consider both cases to be terrible tragedies. The Trayvon Martin case was worse, as the victim was unarmed, and should have resulted in Zimmerman’s imprisonment for the rest of his life for murder in the first degree (he followed Trayvon Martin and attacked him, for no reason other than Martin’s race making him “suspicious” in Zimmerman’s eye. Since he assaulted Martin, committing a felony, and then proceeded to kill him, then this should count as felony murder, even if Zimmerman wasn’t specifically plotting to kill the kid.) > > This case, meanwhile, is an undisputed tragedy. The homeowner should not have been shot, but the police officer who shot him was acting as a reasonable person would when confronted by a possible armed assailant at the scene of a crime who is ignoring police instructions. Add that to the list of reasons not to own a gun. Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman, “…Zimmerman is a civilian who was explicitly told by Dispatch not to follow Trayvon Martin…” Not quite what happened when asked if Zimmerman was following Trayvon the dispatcher said, “We don’t need you to do that.” So he wasn’t ordered not to follow he was informed that is wasn’t necessary, I can only assume you didn’t listen to the 911 call. Now had you listened to the call Zimmerman stated there had been some break-ins in his neighborhood, he saw someone who looked suspicion and called it in. Later after the shooting Zimmerman stated he was going back to his car and that Trayvon approached and attacked him. Zimmerman was treated for an open wound of scalp and later with closed fracture of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek. We know that Trayvon knew someone was following him, according to the girl he as talking with on the phone. she stated he said someone was following him and that she later told him to run. Should Zimmerman have followed Trayvon, that depends on your point of view, would you want your neighbor to keep an eye on someone who might be casing out homes to break into or not? Should have Trayvon ran? Again depends on your point of view, if you felt this person was a danger to you wouldn’t it be prudent to get away? Should Trayvon, if you believe Zimmerman, have approached Zimmerman instead of trying to get away? Shouldn’t Trayvon called 911? After all he had a phone, and if he was worried about someone following him wouldn’t it have been prudent to call the police. Had he done that the dispatchers might have prevented all this from happening. You see it wasn’t cut and dry, there were many things going on and not everyone was aware of what was happening. Just so you know, yes I’ve called the police on people, yes I kept an eye on that both of them (they were a half a block away from me) yes I would have got involved. In my case two people were fighting a guy and a girl and it appeared to me the guy was being very aggressive to the point were I felt the girl might in danger. The police did show in time and they took care of it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/272 "2018-12-08T16:52:39Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I posted at lot about the Zimmerman trial at the time, because Zimmerman’s testimony is so full of holes I’m surprised loose change didn’t fall out. The most damning inconsistency is that Zimmerman claimed [he was the person heard desperately yelling for his life up to the point the gun went off](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wmHRbD0AgY0) while claiming simultaneously that he also was being choked/suffocated by Martin and unable to breathe up to the point he shot the kid. While all this choking (and screaming) was going on, he also claimed Martin was sitting on his chest. None of this shit is humanely possible, but people swallowed it just like they swallowed the rest of his bullshit tale. It takes a massive breakdown in critical thinking skills to listen to that tape and come away thinking it was anyone other than Trayvon Martin screaming. Debating this case is truly like trying to argue with die hard Trump supporters. Once you realize that these people believe what they believe because they give credence to pathological liars, you know it’s a hopeless battle. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/273 "2018-12-08T17:48:54Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > You’ve clearly never been in a real world fist fight. Go visit [Worldstarhiphop: Breaking News | Music Videos | Entertainment News | Hip Hop News](http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/) to see how a fight really transpires. You clearly don’t know what a sucker punch is. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/274 "2018-12-08T17:51:08Z")
You think Martin was screaming while he was scratching up his knuckles on Zimmerman’s face? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/275 "2018-12-08T18:39:10Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > From what I have read, Zimmerman did confront Martin angrily _per se_. Martin demanded to know why Zimmerman was following him ( **angrily, we would assume** ). It is through assumption that bias gets in the way. I would not assume Martin asked this angrily. If I were in his shoes, fear would be more likely…wouldn’t it be for most people? I mean, if a heavy set stranger was skulking after you in the dark and you’re all alone and unarmed, wouldn’t _you_ be afraid? I understand that you are not among those who defend Zimmerman, but I’m using your post to highlight a problematic issue I notice in a lot opinions about this case. The more difficulty one has in believing that a black teenaged boy could feel afraid and vulnerable in a situation that would cause most folks to shit their pants, then the more difficulty they will have in seeing him as Zimmerman’s tragic victim rather than Zimmerman’s assailant. It is precisely because people associate anger and violence with black males that they withhold sympathy from Martin, allowing themselves to become susceptible to Zimmerman’s self-serving narrative about a thug who went after him rather than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/276 "2018-12-08T18:43:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You think Martin was screaming while he was scratching up his knuckles on Zimmerman’s face? Is this a serious question? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/277 "2018-12-08T19:08:38Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Is this a serious question? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/278 "2018-12-08T19:12:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Is this a serious question? Obviously it is. Why would you not expect it to be Zimmerman, the person who was injured, to be screaming? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/279 "2018-12-08T19:17:57Z")
**HurricaineDitka** , if you need someone to explain how it is possible to scream while trying to repel an attacker with one’s hands, please contact the person who wrote [this](https://m.wikihow.com/Fend-off-an-Attacker) wiki, or reach out to the woman described in [this](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/woman-shouts-not-today-motherfer-fighting-off-sex-attacker-seattle-public-toilet-kelly-herron-a7626156.html) article. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/280 "2018-12-08T19:26:36Z")
I really thought I had typed out a rather long reply to this, but it seems to have been eaten by the ethers. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Earlier you did not ask me about “Martin’s situation”. You said this: Right, and in the context of the thread, I thought you would get that I was talking about the context of Martin’s situation, as that is what we are talking about. I didn’t think that you would become confused, and think that we were talking about some random other event that is not related to the topic of the thread. I apologize profusely for my presumptiveness. > [@](#): > > We don’t have any evidence that Martin knew Zimmerman was armed prior to their physical altercation. But, since you seem interested in how I would have responded if I found myself in “Martin’s situation”: > > I would not have run. I would have walked away from the stranger eyeing me and headed towards my home, probably keeping a watchful on him. If you want to fast forward past the point where Martin decided to run, then I would have gone home and gone inside. If you want to skip past that decision point, to where Martin and Zimmerman found themselves face-to-face, then I might have asked him why he was following me but I would _not_ have punched him in the face and smashed his head on the concrete. So, you are saying that you would have lead a suspicious person who was following you in the dark back to your home? If you were confronted by a suspicious stranger who was following you in the dark, you would defer to him in every way? Do you think that when Martin told Zimmerman to fuck off, it’s none of his business, that Zimmerman simply said, “Okay, go about your business, then.” Or do you think that Zimmerman would have made an intimidating move to prevent Martin from brushing him off? I don’t know why you insist that Zimmerman must have done everything absolutely correctly in this instance, when it is obvious that he was not. If Zimmerman had grabbed Martin to prevent him from walking away, would Martin’s actions have been justified at that point? > [@](#): > > Wrong! I have pointedly NOT said that I “know enough about the case to say exactly why Martin did what \* say he did”. Did you seriously miss all the belly-aching because I wouldn’t speculate on his motive? People were right sore about it precisely because I did NOT “say \* know enough about the case to say exactly why Martin did what \* say he did”. I get that you won’t speculate on the motive, because the motive doesn’t make sense with your narrative. And that is because your narrative is flawed. With the narrative that Martin just ambushed Zimmerman for no reason at all, then the motive for Martin’s actions is that he is simply an out of control violent thug. That you would push a narrative that only makes sense if you dehumanize the victim doesn’t mean that you are not endorsing that motive. If you switch to a narrative that does make sense, that Martin was afraid of this stranger who was following him in the dark, then Martin’s motive is simple, and the narrative is simpler too. It is only that we want to stretch everything to make Martin into someone who deserved what he got that gets you so confused. > [@](#): > > Once again, I don’t know why he did it. I don’t see any benefit in speculating without further information either. But, you are more than happy to speculate on the events, and use those speculations of events to damn Martin for being the one to initiate violence, and then say that you can’t understand why he did it. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sure there’s evidence of it. Dee Dee’s testimony was that he said he was “right by” his father’s fiancee’s house. You may want to argue for a strained / stretched-to-the-breaking-point-of-credulity definition of “right by”, but the rest of us don’t have to, and probably won’t, buy into it. I find it incredulous that “right by” means “in the doorway”. There are many meanings for “right by” when you are coming from a location a distance away, but you and Shodan are insisting that that means that he could have just opened the door and gone in, and you are doing it with far less evidence than that needed to know that “right by” is a relative term. It can mean anything from a few houses away, to being on the same street, to even being able to touch your house. However, I could be right by my house, I could be touching it even, and yet have a bit to go to get around to a door to actually get in. That would involve going around a corner, and breaking any cover or concealment you currently have, and entering a new line of site for your pursuer to see you. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m pretty sure he means that we don’t hold trials for dead people, so Trayvon is not on trial. I don’t think your “ergo” follows at all. There are plenty of people who are now dead, and therefore not accused of a crime, whose actions still gave justification to self-defense shootings. Right, but there is not even a crime that he is being accused. Had things gone a bit differently, and Martin was only wounded, not killed, what crime would you be charging him with? You are claiming that the only reason that Martin is not on trial is because he is dead? What crime, specifically, was Martin committing which gave justification to a self-defense shooting? > [@sps49sd](#): > > Transcript excerpt from Post 116: > Hey, we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. … And he was not on drugs, he was not up to no good. The only thing that Zimmerman had right in that was that he was walking, which, even in Florida, is not a crime. You see how much Zimmerman got wong in even just that one sentence, but you take his word on everything else. > [@](#): > > That’s what Zimmerman said on the phone. Apparently something looked suspicious about Martin’s actions and, as a recent arrival to the complex, he was not a familiar face to Zimmerman. “Something”, eh? Sure. Did Zimmerman call the police and confront anyone he saw on the street that was not familiar to him? When people move into the neighborhood, are they required to register themselves at the Zimmerman household? If you want to have visitors, is it required to run it by the Zimmerman’s first? > [@](#): > > I asked earlier, did anyone claim Zimmerman harassed residents or visitors of any color as part of NW activities? If he was not harassing every resident that he did not know by sight, then what reason did he have to harass Martin? > [@postpic200](#): > > Trayvon Martin and Zimmerman, > > “…Zimmerman is a civilian who was explicitly told by Dispatch not to follow Trayvon Martin…” > > Not quite what happened when asked if Zimmerman was following Trayvon the dispatcher said, “We don’t need you to do that.” So he wasn’t ordered not to follow he was informed that is wasn’t necessary, I can only assume you didn’t listen to the 911 call. Do you really think that is what the 911 operator meant there. “Oh, no don’t worry about it, you don’t need to go out of your way to help us out.” Or do you think she meant, “We don’t need (nor want) you to do that.” Since when has law enforcement been fairly cavalier about civilians taking on law enforcement activity? > [@](#): > > Now had you listened to the call Zimmerman stated there had been some break-ins in his neighborhood, he saw someone who looked suspicion and called it in. And that is fine. You see someone suspicious, you call the police. Too bad Martin did not have a gun, as it has been determined on these boards that having a gun puts you above suspicion, and that you may not have the police called on you for that. Being black, though, that’s a whole different matter. > [@](#): > > Later after the shooting Zimmerman stated he was going back to his car and that Trayvon approached and attacked him. And his statement doesn’t match up to the timeline, nor the witnesses, nor the location of the altercation, but everything else he says we should believe. > [@](#): > > Zimmerman was treated for an open wound of scalp and later with closed fracture of his nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, a minor back injury, and bruising in his upper lip and cheek. You should have seen the other guy! > [@](#): > > We know that Trayvon knew someone was following him, according to the girl he as talking with on the phone. she stated he said someone was following him and that she later told him to run. Right, which is why it doesn’t make any sense that he could not have possibly felt in any sort of fear of this man following him in the dark. > [@](#): > > Should Zimmerman have followed Trayvon, that depends on your point of view, would you want your neighbor to keep an eye on someone who might be casing out homes to break into or not? I don’t want my neighbors following people behind houses in the dark. If they see something suspicious, they can call the police. You pose an excluded middle, either they come out armed and follow and stop and question every person that they don’t know on sight, or not. > [@](#): > > Should have Trayvon ran? Again depends on your point of view, if you felt this person was a danger to you wouldn’t it be prudent to get away? He did run away from the suspicious man who was following him in the dark. > [@](#): > > Should Trayvon, if you believe Zimmerman, have approached Zimmerman instead of trying to get away? “If you believe Zimmerman”. Zimmerman’s story doesn’t line up with the evidence we have, so believing him is not necessarily my first instinct. Maybe he was confused, and is is not intentional lying, but the story he gave does not line up. > [@](#): > > Shouldn’t Trayvon called 911? After all he had a phone, and if he was worried about someone following him wouldn’t it have been prudent to call the police. Had he done that the dispatchers might have prevented all this from happening. Yeah, because black teenagers have a great history with the police. The police is not your friend, you know. The police are as likely to show up and shoot him. > [@](#): > > You see it wasn’t cut and dry, there were many things going on and not everyone was aware of what was happening. Including the scared kid who is being followed in the dark by a suspicious stranger. > [@](#): > > Just so you know, yes I’ve called the police on people, yes I kept an eye on that both of them (they were a half a block away from me) yes I would have got involved. In my case two people were fighting a guy and a girl and it appeared to me the guy was being very aggressive to the point were I felt the girl might in danger. The police did show in time and they took care of it. Did you ever follow a black teenager back behind houses in the dark while armed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614.md?page=15)