# How is Mason1972's example worse than the Zimmerman shooting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614 "2018-12-05T15:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/61 "2018-12-05T20:18:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I understand that the law would not view that “implicit threat” as legal justification for deadly force in self defense. Do you understand that? Yes, as I’ve said about a dozen times, we are talking about the moral right and wrong. I realize that by Florida’s laws Zimmerman got off Scott free. The case has been closed for years. In my eyes, Zimmerman is still morally equivalent to a murderer. And by the way, if Zimmerman, say, showed Trayvon his gun in a threatening manner while asking him What he was Doing, then that WOULD justify self defense, but since Zimmerman killed Trayvon I’ll guess we’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/62 "2018-12-05T20:21:52Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Yes, as I’ve said about a dozen times, we are talking about the moral right and wrong. I realize that by Florida’s laws Zimmerman got off Scott free. The case has been closed for years. … You weren’t talking about “the moral right and wrong” when you wrote this: > [@Babale](#): > > …ironically enough, in accordance with Florida’s Stand Your Ground laws, he would be allowed to use deadly force to defend himself here… Don’t bite my head off for correcting you when you make a factually-wrong legal claim. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/63 "2018-12-05T20:22:20Z")
People keep interpreting “right by my father’s house” to mean that he was literally right in front of the door to the house when he said that to his girlfriend. The location of the shooting is also “right by” his father’s house. It was only a couple hundred feet away. My parents back yard is 350 feet long. If I’m all the way in the back of the yard and a friend calls and asks where I am, I’m going to say I’m at my parents house. That doesn’t mean I’m literally arm’s length from the front door. To use that statement as rock solid evidence that he turned and went back to confront Zimmerman is not reasonable. Yet to Zimmerman defenders this is absolute proof of Martin’s bloodlust and intent to attack. He could have been standing right where the confrontation ended up occurring when he said that he was “right by my father’s house”. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/64 "2018-12-05T20:22:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then you need to consider the circumstantial evidence, Dee Dee’s testimony (she was on the phone with Martin at the time), the transcript of the call to the NEN operator, and things like that. For instance, the mark on Martin’s fist consistent with having punched someone, and Zimmerman’s broken nose and blackened eyes. And the eyewitness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, and the grass stains and moisture on Martin’s knees and the back of Zimmerman’s jacket. You asked why he was defending himself, not whether he was hitting Zimmerman. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t. You should look at the evidence, including statements made by Zimmerman before the shooting. What that evidence tells me is that Zim was smart enough to not divulge his racism on the recorded 9-1-1 call. We don’t know, and will never know, why Martin went back. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/65 "2018-12-05T20:23:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Thank you for correcting this grievous error! 😃 (post shortened) Facts are facts. If the media couldn’t/wouldn’t provide the facts, or the whole truth, it makes one wonder what other facts they couldn’t/wouldn’t provide the public. Were they simply reporting a story incorrectly, or were they stoking the flames in order to boost advertising revenue? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/66 "2018-12-05T20:26:52Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Facts are facts. > > If the media couldn’t/wouldn’t provide the facts, or the whole truth, it makes one wonder what other facts they couldn’t/wouldn’t provide the public. Were they simply reporting a story incorrectly, or were they stoking the flames in order to boost advertising revenue? What a load. Arizona is a brand most readily associated with bottled iced tea. They apparently also make fruit beverages without tea. The idea that reporting “a bottle of Arizona brand iced tea” instead of “a bottle of Arizona brand fruit juice” serves some nefarious greedy media narrative is just fucking asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/67 "2018-12-05T20:28:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The fact that, according to Dee Dee’s testimony, he was out of sight of Zimmerman, right by his father’s house, and could have peacefully handled it by walking in the door. Do you feel people should have a legal obligation to walk away from a potential crime if they are able to do so? Or should they legally be allowed to stand their ground if they choose to do so? If some stranger follows you home for no apparent reason, do you just go inside and hope they go away? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/68 "2018-12-05T20:28:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > What a load. Arizona is a brand most readily associated with bottled iced tea. They apparently also make fruit beverages without tea. The idea that reporting “a bottle of Arizona brand iced tea” instead of “a bottle of Arizona brand fruit juice” serves some nefarious greedy media narrative is just fucking asinine. I remember at the time there was some discussion that reporting the flavor of the beverage would reinforce some racial stereotypes, and perhaps the media was misreporting it to avoid accusations of racism. Personally I think plain-old incompetence is the more likely explanation. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/69 "2018-12-05T20:29:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do you feel people should have a legal obligation to walk away from a potential crime if they are able to do so? Or should they legally be allowed to stand their ground if they choose to do so? What “potential crime” are you talking about here? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/70 "2018-12-05T20:32:07Z")
If the only controversy in George Zimmerman’s life was the Trayvon Martin case, maybe I could buy what the Zimmerman apologists here are peddling but, unfortunately, nothing could be farther from the truth. [**George Zimmerman’s many, many controversies since the Trayvon Martin case.**](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-george-zimmerman-controversies-20160512-story.html) Instead, his life has become a series of public controversies that seem to imply he wants the nation to remember the very reason he gained infamy in the first place or, perhaps, that he suffers, at best, from a case of impaired judgement. Now that he has the media spotlight, he hasn’t let go of it, despite receiving “death threats,” as he told WOGZ. > [@](#): > > The most blatant example of this came last October when he retweeted a photograph of Trayvon Martin’s slain body. The original tweet read “Z-man is a one-man army.” Following media outrage, Zimmerman claimed he wasn’t aware the tweet included a photograph. > > Zimmerman is no stranger to Twitter controversy. He’s used it to call President Barack Obama an " ignorant baboon" – which was widely perceived as a racial slur. Perhaps he remembered Obama’s comment after the shooting that “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon. When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids.” And Zimmerman he allegedly invoked the shooting of Martin by tweeting at a critic, “We all know how it ended for the last moron who hit me. Give it a whirl, cupcake.” > > Now, his online presence consists of his website. Its homepage displays a photograph of a cigar dangling from the fingers of an arm tattooed with “sic vis pacem para bellum” – Latin for “If you want peace, prepare for war” – and a pistol tucked into a holster. On the “about” page is a personal recounting of the Martin shooting. > > Racial conflict and firearms appear to be a recurring theme for Zimmerman. Last August, he teamed up with Florida Gun Supply - a gun store that had publicly declared itself a “Muslim-free zone” - to sell prints of a painting by Zimmerman depicting a Confederate battle flag and the inscription, “The 2nd protects our 1st.” Nah, he didn’t stalk and murder an unarmed Black kid because he is a piece of racist scum. Race had nothing to do with it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/71 "2018-12-05T20:32:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We have no evidence that the gun was pointed at Martin at the moment Martin initiated his attack on Zimmerman. Personally, I find the theory laughably implausible, so yes I doubt it. Then you must have some other, by your definition plausible, theory as to why Martin jumped him. You’ve been asked repeatedly, now what is it? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/72 "2018-12-05T20:37:12Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > People keep interpreting “right by my father’s house” to mean that he was literally right in front of the door to the house when he said that to his girlfriend. The location of the shooting is also “right by” his father’s house. It was only a couple hundred feet away. My parents back yard is 350 feet long. If I’m all the way in the back of the yard and a friend calls and asks where I am, I’m going to say I’m at my parents house. That doesn’t mean I’m literally arm’s length from the front door. > > To use that statement as rock solid evidence that he turned and went back to confront Zimmerman is not reasonable. Yet to Zimmerman defenders this is absolute proof of Martin’s bloodlust and intent to attack. He could have been standing right where the confrontation ended up occurring when he said that he was “right by my father’s house”. According to his testimony, Zimmerman had lost track of Martin, which is why he was still standing so far from the Martin residence. According to Dee Dee’s testimony, Martin went back to confront the (derogatory term) following him. Martin approached Zimmerman and a fight ensued. Martin lost that fight. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/73 "2018-12-05T20:36:50Z")
**Snowboarder Bo** , I don’t see how my position is ambiguous. This guy shouldn’t have been shot, because he intended no harm to the police, and would have caused no harm to the police had he not been shot. However, I can see why the shooting happened. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The police should determine that, or attempt to determine that, BEFORE they shoot someone, IMO. Do you disagree? Of course the police should have determined this. How do you propose they do so, in this situation? They came into the door, and saw a man holding a gun. While pointing a gun at him, they demanded he lower his weapon. He didn’t hear them, which is why he didn’t do so, but they had no way to ascertain this at the time. What do you suggest that they should have done? The man was in the next room over, and debris is blocking the door making it difficult to approach the man. He is clearly holding the gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other – but because of the dark surroundings it’s hard to tell in the video WHAT he is holding in the second hand, just that light is coming from it. I suppose the officer thought it was a gun with a flashlight on its end. The man raises the flashlight and points it right at the officer, at which point the officer shoots. > [@](#): > > Again, you’re assuming knowledge on Mr. Black’s part, but you’ve also already acknowledged that Mr. Black did not hear the officer(s). If he didn’t hear them, he didn’t know he was supposed to stop holding the gun. Do you disagree? I don’t disagree, but at the same time, when you bring a gun into your home, you assume certain risks. The largest, of course, is that you or a loved one will accidentally kill or harm yourself or one another using the gun. You also take the risk that, in a moment of depression or hopelessness, you or a loved one will make an irrevocable decision that you’ll regret – while this can happen even if you don’t have a gun, having a gun makes it much more likely that a snap decision will turn into action. And you also take the risk that you’ll be seen carrying that gun in a moment like this and be shot by the police. If you have a disability that makes it more likely that you will ignore police instructions to lower your weapon, maybe you shouldn’t own a gun. The pro-gun crowd will point out that owning a gun allowed him to save his grandson, and this is true. But owning a gun also got him killed, and statistically, the second is much more likely to occur. None of this justifies the shooting. But it explains it. > [@](#): > > Whoa! He did? I don’t recall seeing that in any of the news stories about this. I have not watched the video (and don’t intend to). He did. I watched the video a few times and basically – he enters view, stepping into a doorframe that leads out of the next room. The officers are standing one room removed, there’s a cabinet that fell in the closest doorway, so they haven’t entered the room that the victim is now standing in. He is halfway through the doorframe, clearly holding a gun in his right hand. You can tell he’s holding something in his left, but because the light is coming from it, it’s hard to tell what. He looks over at the officers, sees them, and, while he doesn’t move his gun hand (the gun is held in front of his stomach, pointing down) he snaps his other hand to shine the flashlight directly on the officer. There’s no way for the officer to know that this is only a flashlight, and not a pistol with a light on it. There’s no way for the officer to know that the man won’t shoot as soon as he’s lit up his target. So he acted, and shot the man. It was tragic. It’s terrible that an innocent man was killed. But based on the events that occurred, the actions of the victim – even if totally understandable from his perspective – led to the equally understandable action of the officer in shooting the victim. This is why I’m in favor of bodycams on all police officers. In this case, I think it cleared the cop of any wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/74 "2018-12-05T20:39:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Then you must have some other, by your definition plausible, theory as to why Martin jumped him. You’ve been asked repeatedly, now what is it? I answered to the best of my ability here: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know why he decided to get violent with Zimmerman. It was an extremely foolish decision, but foolish decisions seem to be something of a pattern for Martin: > > > [@](#): > > > > While a student at Dr. Michael M. Krop High School, Martin had behavioral issues. At the time of the shooting, he was serving a ten-day suspension for having a marijuana pipe and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. He had been suspended twice before, for tardiness and truancy and marking up a door with graffiti. The suspension for graffiti was in October 2011, when Martin was observed by a school police officer on a security camera “hiding and being suspicious” in a restricted area of the school. According to the officer, he later observed Martin marking up a door with “W.T.F.” When his backpack was searched the next day by a Miami-Dade School Police officer, looking for the graffiti marker, the officer found a dozen pieces of women’s jewelry, a watch and a screwdriver that was described by the school police officer as a burglary tool. The jewelry found in his backpack included silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds. When Martin was asked by the officer if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend, he said a friend had given it to him. When asked for the name of the friend, Martin declined to provide it. > > > > … > > > > The Miami Herald also reported that Martin was not happy at Krop High School: in one of his tweets he had written, "WULD I MISS KROP?? HELL NAW FUK DA SKOOL, FUK DA LUNCH, ND MOST OF ALL FUK DA FACULTY… IMA MISS SUM OF DA STUDENTS, MAINLY DA BABIES > > [Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trayvon_Martin) Stupid kids do dumb things, oftentimes without having a clear idea why they are doing them. I doubt me speculating on his motives would do anything but inflame people here, so I’ll politely decline. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/75 "2018-12-05T20:40:22Z")
> [@andros](#): > > What a load. Arizona is a brand most readily associated with bottled iced tea. They apparently also make fruit beverages without tea. The idea that reporting “a bottle of Arizona brand iced tea” instead of “a bottle of Arizona brand fruit juice” serves some nefarious greedy media narrative is just fucking asinine. The media had access to the crime scene photos. Rather than report the fact, or the truth, the media chose to report a rumor. You may find that acceptable. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/76 "2018-12-05T20:43:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I doubt me speculating on his motives would do anything but inflame people here, so I’ll politely decline. Not so fast. If the theory that seems obvious to most of us is “laughably implausible” to you, what to you IS plausible? You don’t have anything to offer, do you? If that puts your attempt at victim-blaming in the shitter where it came from, well, that’s what we’re here for, you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/77 "2018-12-05T20:44:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You weren’t talking about “the moral right and wrong” when you wrote this: > > Don’t bite my head off for correcting you when you make a factually-wrong legal claim. That was part of a longer sentence. That longer sentence was my theory as to what happened, which I provided in response to you asking me… what my theory was. The full context was: > [@](#): > > Zimmerman scared the shit out of Trayvon when he was following him around before. When Zimmerman started questioning Trayvon, he either pulled out the gun, or Martin saw its bulge or otherwise realized how big of a threat he was in. Realizing that he could not escape an armed assailant who could shoot him in the back if he ran, Martin defended himself as best he could (ironically enough, in accordance with Florida’s Stand Your Ground laws, he would be allowed to use deadly force to defend himself here). Unfortunately, Zimmerman reached his gun and murdered Martin despite his best efforts to defend himself. If my theory were correct, and Trayvon had seen the gun in Zimmerman’s possession, then when Zimmerman started questioning him in this way, Trayvon would have realized that he could not be expected to escape, since his assailant was armed. As such, Stand Your Ground laws would apply. However, since Zimmerman successfully killed Trayvon, we’ll never get to hear his testimony as to whether Zimmerman’s weapon entered the equation, and so will never be able to prove self defense. You’ve been asked repeatedly for your theory. Why do you think Trayvon would suddenly attack Zimmerman? > [@doorhinge](#): > > According to his testimony, Zimmerman had lost track of Martin, which is why he was still standing so far from the Martin residence. According to Dee Dee’s testimony, Martin went back to confront the (derogatory term) following him. Martin approached Zimmerman and a fight ensued. Martin lost that fight. I don’t even know how to respond to this. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/78 "2018-12-05T20:46:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I answered to the best of my ability here: > > Stupid kids do dumb things, oftentimes without having a clear idea why they are doing them. > > I doubt me speculating on his motives would do anything but inflame people here, so I’ll politely decline. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not so fast. If the theory that seems obvious to most of us is “laughably implausible” to you, what to you IS plausible? You don’t have anything to offer, do you? > > If that puts your attempt at victim-blaming in the shitter where it came from, well, that’s what we’re here for, you’re welcome. I’m starting to think that **Thing Fish** is right, and that the answer is that Trayvon’s race is all the motive he needs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/79 "2018-12-05T20:47:05Z")
It’s sad, but not surprising, to continue to see so many Dopers perfectly willing to shit all over a dead child based on assumptions (i.e. that he followed and attacked Zimmerman out of the blue) that we couldn’t possibly know with any accuracy better than a guess. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614/80 "2018-12-05T20:47:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not so fast. If the theory that seems obvious to most of us is “laughably implausible” to you, what to you IS plausible? You don’t have anything to offer, do you? > > If that puts your attempt at victim-blaming in the shitter where it came from, well, that’s what we’re here for, you’re welcome. Could you explain your theory to me again, because it’s a bit bizarre from my perspective? Here’s what I’ve gathered so far: that you think GZ confronted TM, gun drawn, surly, and menacing, and began interrogating him. TM, in fear for his life, attacks GZ. GZ (and this is where your theory gets particularly implausible in my eyes) allows TM to break his nose, knock him down, straddle him, beat his head on the concrete for a bit before deciding, finally, to shoot TM with the gun he has held in his hand this entire time. Is that right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-mason1972s-example-worse-than-the-zimmerman-shooting/825614.md?page=5)