# How is Microsoft Security Essentials being received? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773 "2010-01-05T18:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/21 "2010-01-09T21:25:54Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Note that MSSE is not positioned as a replacement for a full security suite. Can I reiterate the question of what does constitute a full replacement? NAT in the router + MSSE + Windows Firewall + ? = complete protection. Does installing Spybot or AdAware for manual scans make a difference? Necessary? What about Spybot’s TeaTimer – does MSSE prevent unwanted changes to the registry? What’s missing? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/22 "2010-01-09T22:41:48Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Can I reiterate the question of what does constitute a full replacement? > > NAT in the router + MSSE + Windows Firewall + ? = complete protection. > > Does installing Spybot or AdAware for manual scans make a difference? Necessary? > > What about Spybot’s TeaTimer – does MSSE prevent unwanted changes to the registry? > > What’s missing? MSSE does not prevent tracking cookies, spyware, spam, or any malware other than viruses. You would need Spybot and AdAware or similar antimalwares. I use SuperAntispyware, SpyBlaster, and Malawarebytes, in addition to McAffee. I just purchased a new computer (Windows 7) from Dell and got three years free for McAffee. Hence, I don’t use MSSE but probably will when my free subscription expires. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/23 "2010-01-09T22:43:25Z")
People who need shit like tea timer and 18 security apps are Doing It Wrong. More is not better. Either switch to a non-admin account or improve your PC hygiene (dont pirate software from torrents, run executables from emails or questionable sources, etc). End users are well served by the built in firewall and MSE and a little common sense. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/24 "2010-01-09T22:45:29Z")
> [@](#): > > MSSE does not prevent tracking cookies, spyware, spam, or any malware other than viruses. Wrong. There’s no distinction between viruses, trojans, rootkits, spyware, and malware. You do not need to run Defender or Spybot or anything else with MSE. Also, why do you expect a AV scanner to stop spam? That should be done by your email provider or by your email client. AV doing spam checks is bloaty feature creep we dont need. > **[CNET: Product reviews, advice, how-tos and the latest news](https://www.cnet.com/)** > > Get full-length product reviews, the latest news, tech coverage, daily deals, and category deep dives from CNET experts worldwide. > [@](#): > > AV-Test also threw its current set of 545,034 viruses, worms, Trojans, and other threats at Security Essentials. MSSE successfully caught 536,535 samples for an overall good detection score of 98.44 percent. > > In AV-Test’s battle against adware and spyware, Security Essentials stopped 12,935 out of 14,222 samples, earning a detection grade of 90.95 percent. No false positives came up in a scan of over 600,000 clean files from Windows, MS Office, and other commonly used programs. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/25 "2010-01-09T23:31:54Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Wrong. There’s no distinction between viruses, trojans, rootkits, spyware, and malware. You do not need to run Defender or Spybot or anything else with MSE. Also, why do you expect a AV scanner to stop spam? That should be done by your email provider or by your email client. AV doing spam checks is bloaty feature creep we dont need. > > [CNET: Product reviews, advice, how-tos and the latest news](http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10366232-83.html) Spyware are not viruses and MSSE will not block tracking cookies (which are spyware). I agree that more is not better but you should have enough. You should not run Defender with MSE as they both serve the same purpose and could interfere with each other. But neither stops or removes spyware. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/26 "2010-01-10T01:04:33Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Spyware are not viruses and MSSE will not block tracking cookies (which are spyware). I agree that more is not better but you should have enough. You should not run Defender with MSE as they both serve the same purpose and could interfere with each other. But neither stops or removes spyware. Cookies are not spyware as they neither spy nor are they ware. You can set your browser to block all cookies if you’re paranoid. Windows Defender’s purpose is anti-spyware. MSE incorporated Windows Defender’s code and will disable (in XP) or uninstall (in Vista or 7) the standalone version because it is redundant. MSE both stops and removes spyware. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/27 "2010-01-10T13:54:17Z")
Tracking cookies track what websites you visit, and, in that respect, spy on your computer. MSSE has incorporated Windows Defender so it blocks spyware and viruses; however, I heard that it does not block rootkits. I know I can block all cookies, but I need some cookies so I don’t have to remember log in info. I have my internet privacy set at medium, which restricts first party cookies that save info that can be used to contact me w/o my consent and have blocked 3d pty cookies that do the same. Under sites in “Privacy” I typed the urls of those sites I’ve exempted from blocking or restricting, so I don’t have to type in the log-in info. This website is one of them. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/28 "2010-01-10T14:31:29Z")
Cookies are not spyware. They are not software. You should be managing cookies on your own. Expecting an AV scanner to manage all your privacy settings is being more than a little bit silly. How about when Steam or Windows Update or a bazillion other apps phone home with information about your computer? Its impractical to expect your AV to also do your privacy and builds up a false sense of security if youre just wiping cookies. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/29 "2010-01-10T20:27:56Z")
What about the issue of MSSE not blocking rootkits? I manage cookies on my own, but when I scan with AdAware, it finds many cookies to quarantine. If I then scan with SuperAntispyware, it finds more cookies. I don’t expect an antivirus to block or eliminate cookies. I don’t believe any do, unless you get the suite. That’s why I’ve also downloaded AdAware, SuperAntispyware, and Malwarebytes. And one applet is not sufficient, as noted above. IMHO one should have one antivirus applet but several applets for spyware and cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/30 "2010-01-10T20:41:44Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > What about the issue of MSSE not blocking rootkits As obvious from my OP, I’m not a security expert and am not wholly familiar with MSSE. But following your lead, I poked a bit around and found: [Gizmodo.com](http://gizmodo.com/5295656/microsoft-security-essentials-antivirus-software-codename-morro-available-on-june-23rd) > [@](#): > > Rootkit protection. Microsoft Security Essentials includes a number of new and improved technologies to provide additional defense against rootkits and other aggressive threats. These technologies include live kernel behavior monitoring for monitoring the integrity of kernel structures, support for direct file-system parsing to help identify and remove malicious programs and drivers hidden from the file system, and improved live rootkit removal that dynamically loads a new kernel mode driver as part of the cleaning process so that it can help successfully remove some of the more advanced rootkits. [PCWorld.com](http://www.pcworld.com/article/167325/microsoft_security_essentials_the_first_test_results_are_in.html) > [@](#): > > When put against AV-Test’s “WildList” collection of 3,194 recent, common viruses, bots, and worms, Microsoft Security Essentials detected and removed each and every one of the malware samples. How does this compare to other security products? AV-Test coordinator Andreas Marx notes that “several other [antivirus] scanners are still not able to detect and kill all of these critters yet.” In addition, Microsoft Security Essentials put up a perfect score with zero false positives—it didn’t flag a single clean file as being malicious. AV-Test also took an initial look at Microsoft Security Essentials’ rootkit detection, testing it against a few rootkit samples, and found “nothing to complain about.” But see: [PCMag](http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2353447,00.asp) > [@](#): > > I analyzed the product’s ability to detect and remove rootkits, drawing from both the malware and keylogger categories. Security Essentials boasts live kernel behavior monitoring and other features that should help against rootkits—they didn’t. It only detected two-thirds of my rootkit samples. Two were still running and one still functioning as a rootkit after attempted removal. Its antirootkit score of 3.7 is way below average. I’m in somewhat agreement with you. I’ve always approached security with a strategy perspective, not a single-tool implementation (e.g., AdAware and SpyBot; NoScript and Adblock in the browser). As for cookies, I have FF ask each time, and I’ll either allow or deny for the session. Not perfect, but given the relative innocuousness of cookies, sufficient for my purposes. To those that say one needn’t worry if you avoid torrents and nefarious doings, go check out the several virus-through-the-boards threads in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/31 "2010-01-10T21:08:12Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Tracking cookies track what websites you visit, and, in that respect, spy on your computer. MSSE has incorporated Windows Defender so it blocks spyware and viruses; however, I heard that it does not block rootkits. I know I can block all cookies, but I need some cookies so I don’t have to remember log in info. I have my internet privacy set at medium, which restricts first party cookies that save info that can be used to contact me w/o my consent and have blocked 3d pty cookies that do the same. Under sites in “Privacy” I typed the urls of those sites I’ve exempted from blocking or restricting, so I don’t have to type in the log-in info. This website is one of them. It sounds like everything you “heard” about MSE was from a Dell salesperson who managed to talk you into buying (it’s not free) a three-year McAfee subscription. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/32 "2010-01-10T21:39:41Z")
The 3-year subscription is free. McAfee gives these free subscriptions to purchasers of new computers so that they get hooked on McAfee. Dell used to give free subscriptions to Norton for the same purpose. Most of the materials I’ve read about MSE has been news posts in a usenet group, Privatenew.microsoft, particularly microsoft.privae.security.spyware (announcements, general, etc.) Many of the posters there are MVPs (Microsoft Valuable Person). Some are microsoft employees. So, if anything, their critique of MSE should be favorable, and there has been a post that if you have McAfee, remove it and install one of the free ones named, including MSE, which I may do when my subscription expires. Or I may use one of the other recommended free ones: Avira, Avast, or Nod32. I don’t know about Nod32. My computer is on a 64-bit environment so it may not work on it. OTOH, it probably will and they should change their name. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/33 "2010-01-10T22:17:09Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > The 3-year subscription is free. McAfee gives these free subscriptions to purchasers of new computers so that they get hooked on McAfee. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/34 "2010-01-10T22:52:05Z")
Cite for what? ---
**Author:** ![clnilsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@clnilsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clnilsen)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/35 "2010-01-10T23:04:34Z")
Gonna give this a try and see how it goes. One thing that gives me the big “WTF?” is this does NOT work on Microsoft’s own Windows Home server. (using Avast there…) ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/36 "2010-01-11T00:09:18Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Cite for what? For [QUOTE=barbitu8] The 3-year subscription is free. McAfee gives these free subscriptions to purchasers of new computers so that they get hooked on McAfee. [/QUOTE] And while I’m at it, a cite for: [QUOTE=barbitu8] Dell used to give free subscriptions to Norton for the same purpose. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/37 "2010-01-11T00:19:49Z")
> [@clnilsen](#): > > Gonna give this a try and see how it goes. One thing that gives me the big “WTF?” is this does NOT work on Microsoft’s own Windows Home server. (using Avast there…) MSE is licensed for personal machines only. The server and corporate desktop version is MS Forefront and is not free. WHS is Windows Server 2003, and MSE won’t install on any server OS by design. They may have a WHS-only version in the future, there may not. MS has had enough anti-trust issues to be cautious about free software. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/38 "2010-01-11T10:20:45Z")
Dell has advertised the McAfee trial subscription as being a free trial subscription. Do you think it would engage in false advertising? Moreover, it was noted as a free trial subscription in the MS newsreader, MS public news and MS private news, wherein some posters recommended removing the free trial subscription and downloading MSE or another free one. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/39 "2010-01-11T11:14:42Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > Dell has advertised the McAfee trial subscription as being a free trial subscription. Do you think it would engage in false advertising? Moreover, it was noted as a free trial subscription in the MS newsreader, MS public news and MS private news, wherein some posters recommended removing the free trial subscription and downloading MSE or another free one. Fascinating. I’ve had three Dell laptops over the years. Each time they’ve only included 30-day subscriptions, though Dell did try to sneak in the retail price somewhere in the transaction. Maybe sneak is a bit harsh, but it was something to avoid ending up paying for by default. Their mid-range laptops still come with only a 30-day trial of McAfee. Your claim that Dell includes three years seems to run against the experience of people calling for a cite. But this just in … I popped over to Dell for a moment and took a very quick look at their laptops again. A thousand dollar (not cheap, but not over the top) [Studio 15](http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dndoby8&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=laptop-studio-1555) comes with a 15-_ **month** _ subscription embedded in the price. A 3-year subscription is only $40. I only checked out one or two, but other laptops on their site could easily include the 3-year plan (especially as it’s probably cheap for Dell to comp something like that during their constant sale cycles). Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773/40 "2010-01-11T12:10:38Z")
I honestly don’t like trusting any one vendor to handle things on my computer. Microsoft is handling Updates, which fix secuirty holes. I’m not going to trust them with another security product unless I have no other choice. Anyways, I have XP Home, which can’t run Windows Updates on a limited account. You have to Shut Down the computer to use them (not even rebooting will work.) I don’t want to have to do this just to install antivirus updates. Avira Antivir has had no noticeable slowdown on my computer. And, with a little tweak, you can get rid of the annoying nag screen without violating the terms of use. And if it wereto delete my NoCD cracks, I’d go insane. The whole point of having a program completely installed on the hard drive is to avoid having to use the physical disks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-microsoft-security-essentials-being-received/523773.md?page=3)