# how is porn legal but prostitution isn't?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 24, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060 "2012-12-24T21:57:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/1 "2012-12-24T21:57:48Z")
if you go to your local police sting and proposition the only healthy looking street hooker you’ve ever seen, you get whats coming.
Yet if you are a porn producer and you hire all kinds of gals guys to have sex for money and you’re a business person?
I get the art argument, what I’m interested is the legal questions.
If you have a video camera can you tell the judge you’re looking to get into the porn biz, do you get a pass?
Why don’t guys that go around picking up girls pool their money and open up their own porn film company? Then they could pay the girls and no one gets busted.
I’m just curious, I’m to broke to either pay or start a porn biz and If I save up my money I could legally go to one of the legal brothels we have here. The Obama economy has insured there is a lot of talent there ( I used to be a taxi driver in NV, that’s how I know )
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/2 "2012-12-24T22:13:34Z")
Who is the intended recipient of said services; be it porn or prostitution? With porn, the people having sex aren’t the intended recipients of the services being sold; the people watching them having sex are. With prostitution, at least one of the people having sex is also the intended receipient of the service being sold. So one is selling entertainment, the other is selling sex.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/3 "2012-12-24T22:17:18Z")
Plus, if you’ve got a bunch of guys who just want to have sex, who are they going to get to be the female participants? If they’re porn actresses, they’re going to expect to get paid for their part and they might not want to participate in an enterprise that looks a little sketchy (even when compared to ordinary porn movies…). If they’re prostitutes, they’re also going to expect to get paid and they might have a problem with being videotaped.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/4 "2012-12-24T22:22:56Z")
> [@gunchris](#):
>
> The Obama economy has insured there is a lot of talent there
**Moderator Note**
**gunchris** , political jabs are against the rules in General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
---
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [December 24, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/5 "2012-12-24T23:24:56Z")
[I’d swear](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=643439) [I’ve read](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506617) [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506415) [before.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486133)
[More than once,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435816) [for that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=345810) [matter.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335905)
[Maybe](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295825) [it’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261556) [just](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=171970) [a case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=165867) [of deja vu.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=162039)
---
### Author:  [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/6 "2012-12-25T02:15:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> **Moderator Note**
>
> **gunchris** , political jabs are against the rules in General Questions. No warning issued, but don’t do this again.
>
> Colibri
> General Questions Moderator
Thanks for the heads up, I will do my best.
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### Author:  [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/7 "2012-12-25T02:32:16Z")
[quote=“Ethilrist, post:3, topic:645060”]
_Plus, if you’ve got a bunch of guys who just want to have sex, who are they going to get to be the female participants? If they’re porn actresses, they’re going to expect to get paid for their part and they might not want to participate in an enterprise that looks a little sketchy (even when compared to ordinary porn movies…)._
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> .
being a normal healthy male I have seen porn, its not really my cup of tea though.
I have noticed that girls in porn look nicer then some of the girls I’ve seen wandering around and getting in my taxi when I was a driver, I’m sorry if I didn’t make it clear that I thought the actresses would expect to get paid, of course, that’s the whole exercise of the question. I wonder where they find those girls?
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> \*\* If they’re prostitutes, they’re also going to expect to get paid and they might have a problem with being videotaped.\*\*.
uh, yeah…and??? porn is a business where do you get this notion about not paying anyone? I’ve got to learn to write better.
I don’t know anything about this, do you need a license to make porn? I used to make cable TV shows with an ex girlfriend. In SF the cable TV company was forced to have a “free speech” type of channel - some good - some awful..we didn’t need a license but there was only a little nudity.
I would think its easier to make porn in some cities then it would be to open a cab company, is there a law that says guys who cruise for girls are not allowed to produce and sell porn?
If you own a porn company, pay everyone including the IRS is there some law that says the actors cant be guys who chipped in to so they could be “actors” that’s all I’m asking.
And why cant you cruise around and be a talent scout? I never see adds anywhere for actors to be in porn, where do they find those folks?
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### Author:  [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/8 "2012-12-25T02:36:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> [I’d swear](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=643439) [I’ve read](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506617) [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506415) [before.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486133)
>
> [More than once,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435816) [for that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=345810) [matter.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335905)
>
> [Maybe](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295825) [it’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261556) [just](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=171970) [a case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=165867) [of deja vu.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=162039)
thanks! I tried the search but no joy
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/9 "2012-12-25T02:40:49Z")
> [@gunchris](#):
>
> And why cant you cruise around and be a talent scout? I never see adds anywhere for actors to be in porn, where do they find those folks?
It’s probably word of mouth.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/10 "2012-12-25T03:15:16Z")
Well, you see, the 1st Ad comes into it. Many things which are not legal become legal when they are done as part of a performance . Smoking on the stage.
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### Author:  [@D-bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D-bear)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/11 "2012-12-25T03:39:53Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#):
>
> With porn, the people having sex aren’t the intended recipients of the services being sold; the people watching them having sex are.
The “Producers” and “Directors” often times are also the “Actors” in these productions. Just google Michael Lucas. He’s the one I’m most familiar with. There would seem to be nothing preventing someone from setting up a dummy LLC “production company”, buying a camera and having at it.
Would seem to me that it’d be a way to avoid prosecution.
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### Author:  [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/12 "2012-12-25T04:07:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Well, you see, the 1st Ad comes into it. Many things which are not legal become legal when they are done as part of a performance . Smoking on the stage.
Gotta love freedom!😃
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### Author:  [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/13 "2012-12-25T04:11:03Z")
> [@D-bear](#):
>
> The “Producers” and “Directors” often times are also the “Actors” in these productions. Just google Michael Lucas. He’s the one I’m most familiar with. There would seem to be nothing preventing someone from setting up a dummy LLC “production company”, buying a camera and having at it.
>
> Would seem to me that it’d be a way to avoid prosecution.
thanks! that’s the kind of info I was wondering about, maybe straight dope should also have a legal section…
Not that I have any business plan or funding but “they” say its a big business - who knows - maybe there is some kind of niche market for gun nuts?
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/14 "2012-12-25T05:02:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Well, you see, the 1st Ad comes into it. Many things which are not legal become legal when they are done as part of a performance . Smoking on the stage.
On Broadway it is illegal to smoke cigarettes on stage. Both public health law and union rules, I believe.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/15 "2012-12-25T05:28:40Z")
The reason porn producers aren’t busted for prostitution is because they only produce porn in localities where the cops aren’t interested in busting them for prostitution. There’s a reason almost all professional porn produced in America comes from LA, and not Baton Rouge.
Prostitution is a thriving business all over the United States. Your chances of getting busted for hiring a prostitute are extremely low. The way to avoid undercover cops is to not offer money until they get in the car and close the door, no cop is going to get in a car with a john.
So the answer is that porn producers avoid prostitution charges the same way people who hire prostitutes avoid them. They keep a low profile, they stick to “red light” areas where the cops turn a blind eye, if both the john and the hooker keep quiet no one will know, and cops put a very low priority on busting prostitution unless it’s so blatant the neighbors start to complain.
So if you want to hire a hooker, just hire one and don’t make a big deal out of it. You’re much less likely to get busted if you just hire a girl and keep your mouth shut than if you go on local news with your “it’s not prostitution it’s porn!” business model.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [December 25, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/16 "2012-12-25T06:18:27Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> The reason porn producers aren’t busted for prostitution is because they only produce porn in localities where the cops aren’t interested in busting them for prostitution. There’s a reason almost all professional porn produced in America comes from LA, and not Baton Rouge.
So you’re saying that producing professional pornography, in and of itself, is a crime? And cops just choose not to bust it in certain spots?
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### Author:  [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/17 "2012-12-26T03:22:02Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#):
>
> So you’re saying that producing professional pornography, in and of itself, is a crime? And cops just choose not to bust it in certain spots?
This gets into the whole SCOTUS decision about what is and isn’t obscene. In some counties hard core porn is still considered obscene and is illegal to produce or even buy. You could challenge the laws there, but you’d have to spend a lot of money on lawyers, and face the wrath of locals who don’t want it in their town anyway.
I believe the SCOTUS did hand down a decision that stated that porn isn’t \*\*\*prostitution \*\*\*because no one is paying for providing direct sexual pleasures (the guys are getting paid too, though uniquely way less than the girls). However a local legislature could still claim that the manufacturing and/or selling of pornography is still \*\*\*obscene \*\*\*by their community’s standards and arrest them on such charges. A couple counties in southern California specifically ruled the production of hard core porn not obscene (with a few limitations, no underage, no bestiality, no obvious incest, no gross fetishes), which is why (until recently) 99.9% of all US porn was made there.
But I wouldn’t be too anxious to try and start a professional porn studio anywhere right now. The ubiquitousness of massive amounts of completely free hard core porn of every possible fetish on the internet has all but bankrupted the big VHS & DVD porn production & distribution companies.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/18 "2012-12-26T04:58:43Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#):
>
> This gets into the whole SCOTUS decision about what is and isn’t obscene. In some counties hard core porn is still considered obscene and is illegal to produce or even buy. You could challenge the laws there, but you’d have to spend a lot of money on lawyers, and face the wrath of locals who don’t want it in their town anyway.
>
> I believe the SCOTUS did hand down a decision that stated that porn isn’t \*\*\*prostitution \*\*\*because no one is paying for providing direct sexual pleasures (the guys are getting paid too, though uniquely way less than the girls). However a local legislature could still claim that the manufacturing and/or selling of pornography is still \*\*\*obscene \*\*\*by their community’s standards and arrest them on such charges. A couple counties in southern California specifically ruled the production of hard core porn not obscene (with a few limitations, no underage, no bestiality, no obvious incest, no gross fetishes), which is why (until recently) 99.9% of all US porn was made there.
>
> But I wouldn’t be too anxious to try and start a professional porn studio anywhere right now. The ubiquitousness of massive amounts of completely free hard core porn of every possible fetish on the internet has all but bankrupted the big VHS & DVD porn production & distribution companies.
This is somewhat right with, IIRC, a few details wrong. Most states prosecuted/prosecute production of porn as prostitution. In the late 80s, a California court ruled that porn production was NOT prostitution.
Therefore, all porn production moved there (and whynot? most other films are made there). Obscenity laws are hollow because the film must contain NO artistic, literary or scientific value (according to SCOTUS). Give 4 minutes of the cable guy installing the box before he porks the housewife then, hey, it has SOME artistic value.
So, if Alabama wants to prosecute porn production, then fine, we will move it to California. And the cable guy fucking the housewife has artistic value. Challenge that, bitches (so goes the theory). Nobody wants to prosecute anything related to porn because its either a losing proposition because the courts have made it so, the constituents won’t back it up with any type of enthusiasm, or localities where the public demands its suppression vote with their wallets by keeping stores from opening where it is stocked.
ETA: There are places where you can’t buy a BEER, let alone allowing a porn shop..
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### Author:  [@jharvey963](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jharvey963)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/19 "2012-12-26T21:45:12Z")
Too lazy to look it up right now, but I remember a story about escorts/prostitutes trying to get around the prostitution laws. They had a camera and location set up. You would pay them for their “acting” skills, and your session with them would be filmed by cameras on tripods. When you left, you took the tape with you so that you could “distribute it yourself”.
Thus, you were making porn, not paying a prostitute for sex.
Anyone know if this was ever challenged?
J.
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### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [December 26, 2012, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-porn-legal-but-prostitution-isnt/645060/20 "2012-12-26T22:48:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> [I’d swear](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=643439) [I’ve read](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506617) [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=506415) [before.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486133)
>
> [More than once,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=435816) [for that](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=345810) [matter.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335905)
>
> [Maybe](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=295825) [it’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261556) [just](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=171970) [a case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=165867) [of deja vu.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=162039)
Someone should do a sticky on porn
😃
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