# How is Rosa Parks not the Jessica Lynch of the civil rights movement? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 31, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684 "2005-10-31T06:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/41 "2005-10-31T16:30:03Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Forgive me, I mistook it for Bush bashing, which I will normally get in line for to help on, I just wanted to be fair about it. 😉 Hey, no problem; I confess that my choice of an example wasn’t completely random :D. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/42 "2005-10-31T16:44:26Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > And renowned collector of give-me-money-or-suffer-claims-of-racism payoffs. > > (Somebody puh-leese ask me for a cite. Google “Jesse Jackson” and “extortion” and you’ll get about 28,800 hits.) I’m not going to argue that Jesse Jackson isn’t a grandstander. But your post, rather typically, indulges in one of the most ridiculous reductionisms possible. Who gives a fuck how many Google hits something gets? Google “ronald reagan” and “extortion” and you get 54,700 hits. Doesn’t mean a fucking thing. And you wonder why you are ridiculed when this is what passes for “evidence” in your puny mind. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/43 "2005-10-31T16:53:44Z")
When I first saw the title, I thought “Jessica Lynch” referred to Baby Jessica, the toddler who fell down the hole during the 80’s. :smack: You don’t suppose those are the same woman, do you? 'Cause that would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazon\_Floozy\_Goddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazon_Floozy_Goddess)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/44 "2005-10-31T17:19:40Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > (My bolding). > > Come on! I completely agree that this woman should be honoured in the way she has been. She was a good, brave soul and thoroughly deserving of the accolades. > > But still living in the age of Jim Crow without her? That’s an absurd statement. Somebody else could, and would, easily have filled that symbolic role. Easily? No way. Not only was being African-American tough enough in that time, but she was also a woman, so she had two strikes against her. That lady was putting her life on the line doing what she did. If a couple of violently racist white guys looking for trouble had been on that bus, things could have turned out very bad. I’d say it’s about damn time a woman of colour received the honor that Rosa did. And she well deserved it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/45 "2005-10-31T17:24:28Z")
When you look at the list of people who have been honored by lying in state at the Rotunda (including two slain Capitol police officers and former Congressman/Sen. Claude Pepper) it doesn’t seem out of line for Rosa Parks to be honored in the same way. I draw the line at Wellington Mara though. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/46 "2005-10-31T17:31:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When you look at the list of people who have been honored by lying in state at the Rotunda (including two slain Capitol police officers and former Congressman/Sen. Claude Pepper) it doesn’t seem out of line for Rosa Parks to be honored in the same way. > > I draw the line at Wellington Mara though. :dubious: Did anyone mention Wellington? He already had an excellent and wonderful funeral at St Pats in NYC and a great tribute Sunday at Giant Stadium. I don’t think anyone would even suggest he be at the Rotunda. Did I miss something? Or did you mean to 😉 and did :dubious: instead? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/47 "2005-10-31T17:38:11Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Did anyone mention Wellington? He already had an excellent and wonderful funeral at St Pats in NYC and a great tribute Sunday at Giant Stadium. Not only that, the detachment of B-1 bombers that staged on overflight in Mara’s honor made a terrific whooshing noise. I’m sure Mara was a wonderful football team owner and all, but I can understand that after awhile certain people would wish to nominate him for the Dead Already Fer Chrissake list. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/48 "2005-10-31T18:08:42Z")
> [@Amazon Floozy Goddess](#): > > Easily? No way. Not only was being African-American tough enough in that time, but she was also a woman, so she had two strikes against her. That lady was putting her life on the line doing what she did. If a couple of violently racist white guys looking for trouble had been on that bus, things could have turned out very bad. Last week in one of my classes the professor played an NPR tribute to Rosa Parks, and I learned something astonishing from it. Prior to that story, I’d thought that her decision was spontaneous, the act of a proud, cranky person who was fed up with discrimination and decided to make a one-woman stand. I had no idea that she’d trained for that moment, and that others had tried to achieve it before her. In no way does knowing that detract from her courage: on the contrary, the fact that she deliberately went into a very dangerous situation after a long consideration speaks volumes. However, I think the misconception that her act was spontaneous is both widespread and dangerous. It’s dangerous because it trivializes the idea of organizing to achieve social justice: Parks’s success in this regard is one of the most phenomenal in history, I believe, and should be studied as such. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/49 "2005-10-31T18:31:48Z")
I read this whole thread with my jaw hanging open. I have a really hard time believing anyone without a white hood on has a problem with Rosa Parks lying in the rotunda. And then that the OP thinks Jesse and Rev. Al might deserve it but NOT Rosa Parks? :mad: I repeat: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/50 "2005-10-31T18:33:57Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > When I found out Rosa Parks passed away, I hoped but doubted that the government would respond with a fitting tribute to what she meant to the USA. > When I found out she would lay in state where few had I was moved. It was a great mark of respect from the President. I don’t even care if there were underlying political motivations to do so. It is a wonderful tribute. I will applaud Bush for this one. > Disclaimer: I do not like President Bush, if fact I think he is the worst President of my lifetime. Actually, I believe it’s entirely up to Congress to decide who gets the honor, so Bush had no involvement whatsoever. I agree with your statement otherwise, and your post 22 was particularly well-written. (As for Wellington Mara, I don’t follow football, but there was a nice article about his funeral in the Saturday New York Times written by Richard Sandomir. At the end he quoted a former NY Giant named Dave Jennings, “I’ve figured it out. Wellington Mara was the greatest Giant of them all.”) ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/51 "2005-10-31T18:45:58Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > Less is more? Bullshit. Her subtlety makes her as important as a head of state? Get real. A funeral, or lying in state is not for the dead, it is for the living. I have known many people like Rosa Parks in my long life, and I consider that a privilege and an honor. Rosa Parks would not have cared a whit whether she was going to lie in state, it is about who admire her that matters. And every American who is not a racist admires Rosa Parks. We are honoring the movement. Having Rosa Parks lie in State does honor to the practice, most of whom were politicians. But I want to object to the OP in the first place. It’s racist in its underlying assumption that kicking off King’s civil rights movement was not worthy of honor. It is, along with the first moon landing, the only great non-war advancement our country made in the 20th century. The notion that Rosa Parks is somehow dishonoring our nations capitol building rotunda is simply wrong: she is the most wonderful person who has ever lain in state there, who has done more for equality than any other who has lain in state there with the possible exceptions of Lincoln and FDR, both of whom would be proud to have her in their company. There are white Americans like me who think that the Rush Limbaugh invented controversies over whether Darren McNabb deserves to be the top rated quarterback, or whether MLK should have a holiday, or Rosa Parks should lie in state are codes for the resentment against the aspriations of generations of black Americans to be treated with equality. We know what it is really about. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/52 "2005-10-31T19:05:30Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m not going to argue that Jesse Jackson isn’t a grandstander. > > But your post, rather typically, indulges in one of the most ridiculous reductionisms possible. Who gives a fuck how many Google hits something gets? > > Google “ronald reagan” and “extortion” and you get 54,700 hits. Doesn’t mean a fucking thing. And you wonder why you are ridiculed when this is what passes for “evidence” in your puny mind. “Most ridiculous reductionisms _possible_”? Still got your painties in a wad, I see. Google “Ronald Reagan” and “extortion” and you don’t get 54,700 hits describing acts of extortion that Reagan commited. Now, I’m sure some of those 28,000 hits on Jackson aren’t actually describing examples or occasions of extortion, but you get the idea, I’m sure. At any rate, I was merely attempting to head off the hair-splitters such as yourself who might come charging in claiming Jackson was a fine, upstanding person and dare me to prove he was an extortionist. I’m glad to see that the posters to this thread see Jackson for the characterless publicity-hound and extortionist that he is. And I spend zero time wondering what you think about me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/53 "2005-10-31T19:19:16Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > Actually, I believe it’s entirely up to Congress to decide who gets the honor, so Bush had no involvement whatsoever. I agree with your statement otherwise, and your post 22 was particularly well-written. > > (As for Wellington Mara, I don’t follow football, but there was a nice article about his funeral in the Saturday New York Times written by Richard Sandomir. At the end he quoted a former NY Giant named Dave Jennings, “I’ve figured it out. Wellington Mara was the greatest Giant of them all.”) Thank you for the correction, I am far from an expert on the honor of the Rotunda. Thank you for the compliment, I truly feel Rosa was a great hero. (Jenning’s said it very well, thank you for that also.) **Starving Artist** On Jesse Jackson: Like him or hate him, or be neutral like me, you still have to give him some credit for his positive acts. He has helped over the last 30 years to keep issues of racism from being pushed aside into a dark closet. He has tried to keep the Democrats from just assuming we have the “Black Vote” even if we do nothing more to help them. In these ways he has tried to do well. He also delivered an awesome reading of [Green Eggs and Ham](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91aupdate.phtml) on SNL in the 1991 that I still remember fondly. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/54 "2005-10-31T19:20:36Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Google “Ronald Reagan” and “extortion” and you don’t get 54,700 hits describing acts of extortion that Reagan commited. Now, I’m sure some of those 28,000 hits on Jackson aren’t actually describing examples or occasions of extortion, but you get the idea, I’m sure. The idea that you have absolutely no clue whatsoever how Google works? Yes, that comes across quite plainly. Here are some sentence fragments that would match your query: “Jesse Jackson fights extortion” “Jesse Jackson, victim of extortion” “Jesse James accused of extortion by General Jackson” “Jesse, the price of this Janet Jackson CD is extortionate” “Starving Artist is being a complete wally with regards to Google, Jesse Jackson and extortion” It’s the same for Reagan. There are 1.8 million hits for the query “jesus murderer”. There are 12,300 for " ‘mother teresa’ axe murder". 12,700 for “Starving Artist wally”. 10,100 for “dead badger inspired orator”. Google hits are not evidence **of anything**. For crying out loud, I can’t _stand_ the good Rev., but the Google Hit Argument is so profoundly stupid it makes my eyes bleed. Please, for the love of all that is holy, stop using it. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/55 "2005-10-31T19:31:36Z")
> [@dnooman](#): > > I’ll rephrase my OP. Were the actions of Rosa Parks worthy of her being treated as she was in her viewing? This is a rhetorical question, yes? Of course she was. As many people have stated, being “head of the most powerful country in the world” does not make you a worthy or extraordinary person, it’s merely an act of being the most popular scallawag on the ballot. Plenty of people talk about “the way things ought to be.” Very few put themselves forward to bring about change with such quiet dignity and unmoving integrity as Miss Parks. The Civil Rights movement was not just something she participated in. It was the way she lived her life. She embodied that movement. She’s absolutely “worthy” of being honored by lying in state. In fact, she’s worthy of being honored with a permanent place in history. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/56 "2005-10-31T19:33:19Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Google “Ronald Reagan” and “extortion” and you don’t get 54,700 hits describing acts of extortion that Reagan commited. Now, I’m sure some of those 28,000 hits on Jackson aren’t actually describing examples or occasions of extortion, but you get the idea, I’m sure. I’m just wondering, **Starving Artist**. Would you say that the level of rigor in the evidence you offer for your views online is about the same as the level of rigor in the evidence that convinces you to be conservative? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/57 "2005-10-31T19:50:36Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > (My bolding). > But still living in the age of Jim Crow without her? That’s an absurd statement. Somebody else could, and would, easily have filled that symbolic role. Yes, but as cleanly and as well? If the person was, to pick a name, Al Sharpton, a mouthy, lying, prevaricating, Tawana Brawley-supporting, Cop-slandering son of a bitch? Compared to a woman with _no_ scandal on her record, a good, clean, respectful and respectable woman with a job? Then everything would be different. We might be out of Jim Crow, but it would be a long and painful struggle, full of he said and she said and but what about his other scandals? Martin Luther King wouldn’t have been able to say what he said, do what he did without her, or someone like her. If someone like Sharpton had been her, we might have gotten to where we were in the 70s… in the 90s. It’s not hard to imagine. Fighting every step of the way against an apparently justified bigotry, fighing every inch for justice when your own leaders are corrupt? It’s a slow fight. We might be throwing bananas at black baseball players today, and hooting at them. Apparently, they do so in Spain, in soccer games. They don’t do that here. Contrawise, what if she had been a firebrand, and advocated violence after she got attention? If Malcom X had been the man who she advocated, and not King? Watts would be nothing. Detroit, LA could be ruins now. We owe a great debt to Ms. Parks for being who she was, where she was, and when she was. She was one woman who changed the United States. Appreciate it when the best of all possible results happen. It’s so rare. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/58 "2005-10-31T19:54:11Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > dead badger inspired orator". Google hits are not evidence **of anything**. This is most amusing. You are clearly unaware of the parody involved in my use of it. More than once around here I’ve been assailed on this point or that by the use of a certain number of Google hits to illustrate my opponent’s assertions. I’m was merely trying to head off my opponents’ objections by using their own weapons against them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/59 "2005-10-31T20:04:20Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > This is most amusing. You are clearly unaware of the parody involved in my use of it. More than once around here I’ve been assailed on this point or that by the use of a certain number of Google hits to illustrate my opponent’s assertions. I’m was merely trying to head off my opponents’ objections by using their own weapons against them. You should realize that we’re not as stupid as we look. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684/60 "2005-10-31T20:13:57Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Last week in one of my classes the professor played an NPR tribute to Rosa Parks, and I learned something astonishing from it. Prior to that story, I’d thought that her decision was spontaneous, the act of a proud, cranky person who was fed up with discrimination and decided to make a one-woman stand. I had no idea that she’d trained for that moment, and that others had tried to achieve it before her. **What?!** Who on NPR said that? Did you hear wrong, maybe? She did not train for it. She was not chosen as a test case. She “sat her black ass down”, as Ice Cube put it, of her own volition. The NAACP chose to **make** an example of her instead of others because she was better able to stand up to the intense scrutiny that followed, but they did not goad her into it. Stop fucking saying that it was rigged. It. Was. Not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-rosa-parks-not-the-jessica-lynch-of-the-civil-rights-movement/328684.md?page=4)