# How is "shutting down the government" a winning strategy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 18, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152 "2013-09-18T16:40:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/241 "2013-09-24T19:38:53Z")
Your ignoring of my post #236 is noted. > [@adaher](#): > > Last I checked, SDMB was supposed to be above campaigning… > [@adaher](#): > > That was unacceptable for the free lunch Democratic Party. Not only did they deny the existence of any downsides whatsoever, but called anyone who pointed them out liars and scaremongers. The irony! It burns! It burns! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/242 "2013-09-24T19:42:58Z")
The public will draw their own conclusions based on their own experiences. Of course, it will then be the Republicans’ fault, since President Obama may never be held accountable for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/243 "2013-09-24T19:44:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The public will draw their own conclusions based on their own experiences. Of course, it will then be the Republicans’ fault, since President Obama may never be held accountable for anything. I am sure people [whose family premiums triple](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/one-man-obamacare-nightmare/) will just blame Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/244 "2013-09-24T19:49:50Z")
The affect of the ACA on people who prefer to self-insure for most things and use high deductible plans for catastrophic costs, _and who are actually prepared to pay those costs instead of pawning them off on the public_, is a limited but nevertheless unfortunate consequence. You know what would be great? A Congress that had any interest at all in finding solutions to those issues, like creating a class of high-deductible insurance that was exempted from the coverage requirements if the purchasers hold a health care bond to prove their ability to pay for the areas the requirements would otherwise cover. Instead, of course, we have Ted Cruz rambling about tyranny and the government making your medical choices. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/245 "2013-09-24T20:01:23Z")
That’s not the only cost. Some people will see premiums go up. The whole reason it’s so important for the young to be in the exchanges is so they can subsidize the old. It’s a generational wealth transfer program by design. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/246 "2013-09-24T20:04:06Z")
Oh good, three new points to rebut as we breeze merrily by the deconstruction of the last ten. I’ll pass. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/247 "2013-09-24T20:05:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am sure people [whose family premiums triple](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/one-man-obamacare-nightmare/) will just blame Republicans. From our good friends at Daily Kos: > **[Such a Lovely Family, Such a Shame](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/24/1240954/-Such-a-Lovely-Family-Such-a-Shame)** > > Fox News has a story out today about a family of 4 in Kentucky who have private insurance from Humana - a high deductible catastrophic plan. They have received a premium increase notice. The ... > [@](#): > > …Such a lovely family, such a shame. > Problem is, Fox News forgot to mention some crucial details… The crucial details overlooked are included in the story. But I bet you can guess… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/248 "2013-09-24T20:06:56Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > …Instead, of course, we have Ted Cruz rambling about tyranny and the government making your medical choices. :rolleyes: Mud and leeches were good enough for the Founding Fathers! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/249 "2013-09-24T20:48:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s not the only cost. Some people will see premiums go up. The whole reason it’s so important for the young to be in the exchanges is so they can subsidize the old. It’s a generational wealth transfer program by design. Every insurance policy in history is a wealth transfer program whereby folks with lower risk “subsidize” people with higher risk. That’s the _whole fucking point_ of insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/250 "2013-09-24T21:05:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > From our good friends at Daily Kos: > > [Such a Lovely Family, Such a Shame](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/24/1240954/-Such-a-Lovely-Family-Such-a-Shame) Right, the best thing they could come up with in response to the man’s premium increase by 300% (which they don’t dispute) is character assassination. Perfect little liberals. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/251 "2013-09-24T21:07:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Every insurance policy in history is a wealth transfer program whereby folks with lower risk “subsidize” people with higher risk. That’s the _whole fucking point_ of insurance. Then why the insistence that everyone will see their premiums go down? At least Nancy Pelosi is finally backing off that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/252 "2013-09-24T21:11:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Right, the best thing they could come up with in response to the man’s premium increase by 300% (which they don’t dispute) is character assassination. Perfect little liberals. Please excuse my lack of tears; his 300% increased premium doesn’t strike me as anything extreme. What strikes me as extreme is that he [del]is[/del]was able to insure a family of 4 for the same amount that I pay for my 2nd tier insurance (BCBS) that covers just me. I pay about $1050 per quarter for my insurance which has a $2000 yearly deductible. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/253 "2013-09-24T21:23:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Please excuse my lack of tears; his 300% increased premium doesn’t strike me as anything extreme. What strikes me as extreme is that he [del]is[/del]was able to insure a family of 4 for the same amount that I pay for my 2nd tier insurance (BCBS) that covers just me. I pay about $1050 per quarter for my insurance which has a $2000 yearly deductible. Could it be his deductible is way more than $2000? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/254 "2013-09-24T21:26:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then why the insistence that everyone will see their premiums go down? At least Nancy Pelosi is finally backing off that statement. Asking me to clarify Nancy Pelosi’s statements when you can’t even get the ABC’s of insurance right is the very definition of a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/255 "2013-09-24T21:29:35Z")
I agreed with you that this is the nature of insurance. In that case, there is nothing wrong with pointing out to voters what the nature of insurance is. Democrats get very defensive when these simple truths are pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/256 "2013-09-24T22:05:39Z")
Its not that simple truths are pointed out, but that simple truths are \*selectively \*pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/257 "2013-09-24T22:10:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Could it be his deductible is way more than $2000? Could it be that it isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/258 "2013-09-24T22:11:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Right, the best thing they could come up with in response to the man’s premium increase by 300% (which they don’t dispute) is character assassination. Perfect little liberals. Did you read it? Point out to me any remarks therein that disparage Mr. Mangione’s character, or that of any member of his family. The point is made clear in the text, the complaint is that Fox News offered this heart-wrenching story without any mention of the fact that Mr. Mangione has “a dog in the fight”. It was worthy of mention for a news outlet that wants to protect what shreds of integrity might remain. But nevermind, just show us in the text where “character assassination” is practiced, that will do nicely for now. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/259 "2013-09-24T22:14:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did you read it? Point out to me any remarks therein that disparage Mr. Mangione’s character, or that of any member of his family. There is nothing in the article other than “revealing” to us where the man works. > [@](#): > > The point is made clear in the text, the complaint is that Fox News offered this heart-wrenching story without any mention of the fact that Mr. Mangione has “a dog in the fight”. And of course that negates the fact that his premium went up 300%, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152/260 "2013-09-24T22:18:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agreed with you that this is the nature of insurance. Ah - I missed the part of your post where you wrote in invisible ink and agreed with me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-shutting-down-the-government-a-winning-strategy/669152.md?page=14)