# How is the Democratic Party's Platform Destructive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 18, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944 "2019-10-18T08:57:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/101 "2019-10-22T14:43:39Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Otto von Bismarck, not exactly a lovable liberal, instituted the first modern social welfare system, not because he admired proles and peasants, but to 1) steal political issues from Socialists, 2) have a healthier, wealthier, more productive nation that paid the Kaiser more taxes, and 3) keep the proles and peasants from rising up and slaughtering the aristos. GOPs don’t seem to grasp such subtle stuff. Like I said in the second post: No-one is going to talk about what’s supposedly dangerous about the democratic platform. It will all be saying “It’ll be just like Venezuala / nazi germany (as Rand Paul did on the daily show), or a programme that is 100+ years old (as in your case)” Why are we not comparing the ideas to, say, all the successful welfare systems in most of the developed world? That would seem to me the obvious comparison since they are right now implementing many of the ideas that progressives are suggesting the US should adopt. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/102 "2019-10-22T14:58:32Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Oh, theres a shitload of blame to go around, but I would respect the Democrat party a whole hell of alot more if they were campaigning in those horrible places within our borders instead of for people that shouldn’t even be here. > > I follow the left pretty closely and none of them appear to give a single shit about the forgotten people of the country. The real reason (which I suspect you know but won’t acknowledge) is that thanks to Republican pro-business policies of the last thirty years, the American worker has been treated like toilet paper. Workers used to be something that companies invested in for the long term. Now they considered expendable in the name of increased profit for shareholders. And you can lay it all at the feet of St. Ronnie who burned unions at the stake. Sorry, but I find it hard to take seriously a thread that talks about how _ **destructive the Democratic platform is to the United States of America** _ when the Republican in the Oval Office is shredding the Constitution and the Senate Majority Leader is handing it to him. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/103 "2019-10-22T15:10:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Whoa whoa whoa – where are these free abortions you’re talking about? Asking for a friend! You must be in the group that got miniature American flags instead. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/104 "2019-10-22T15:24:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You must be in the group that got miniature American flags instead. Holy cow was that a National Lampoon reference? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/105 "2019-10-22T16:34:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Holy cow was that a National Lampoon reference? [The Simpsons](https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi2uImxpbDlAhWF2-AKHVkxAs4QjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fdaveweigel%2Fstatus%2F897913637175783427&psig=AOvVaw3vQLavkP1HpLRMd-b500qM&ust=1571848244043069), I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/106 "2019-10-22T17:04:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Don’t forget taxing the rich more. Apparently that’s where all the money in the country is. > > And I suspect that many of them are calling for more dramatic spending cuts in the DoD beyond just cutting waste. Even so, my uninformed opinion is that 100% of profits for any company making over $1bn and any individual making profits over $1m per annum _still_ wouldn’t be enough to underwrite everything the Democrats want to do. Most of rich people’s wealth isn’t liquid. Plus there are consequences of taxing people that need to be taken into account. ETA: And if there are specific proposals to downsize the Department of Defense, I would want to see them. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/107 "2019-10-22T17:52:03Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Even so, my uninformed opinion is that 100% of profits for any company making over $1bn and any individual making profits over $1m per annum _still_ wouldn’t be enough to underwrite everything the Democrats want to do. That seems totally irrelevant. Tariffs don’t pay for the Department of Defense, but nobody proposes to eliminate that source of revenue just because it doesn’t meet an arbitrary threshold. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/108 "2019-10-22T20:19:29Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Lip service. Every politician has it, just like the ones you quoted. And not a single policy or system noted in any of that on HOW they are going to do it. I just linked literally half a dozen policies and plans. Your willful ignorance is astounding. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/109 "2019-10-22T20:37:41Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Because thats some shit you just made up in that little noggin of yours, while what Im saying is literally, verbatim, what the left openly states for the world to see. Do not state or imply that another poster is lying. “you just made that up” falls in that category. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/110 "2019-10-22T21:14:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That seems totally irrelevant. Tariffs don’t pay for the Department of Defense, but nobody proposes to eliminate that source of revenue just because it doesn’t meet an arbitrary threshold. I meant in addition to the other sources of funding on the 2016 DNC Platform document. So my uninformed opinion is that the 100% profits of rich people and corporations, plus cutting waste in defense spending, plus closing tax loopholes, plus a ‘financial transactions tax’ on Wall Street, plus the federal taxes and tariffs already exacted, still would not cover the ambitious Democratic platform. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/111 "2019-10-22T21:36:43Z")
Those bastards! How can anyone decent support medical care for someone? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/112 "2019-10-23T00:20:15Z")
He’s right though – no government in the world could afford to give its citizens medical care. UHC might seem affordable, but what the fake news, anti-trump media won’t tell you is that in the worst cases, it can cost as much as 50% of the US system!! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/113 "2019-10-23T00:26:05Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I meant in addition to the other sources of funding on the 2016 DNC Platform document. So my uninformed opinion is that the 100% profits of rich people and corporations, plus cutting waste in defense spending, plus closing tax loopholes, plus a ‘financial transactions tax’ on Wall Street, plus the federal taxes and tariffs already exacted, still would not cover the ambitious Democratic platform. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/114 "2019-10-23T00:43:12Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I meant in addition to the other sources of funding on the 2016 DNC Platform document. So my uninformed opinion is that the 100% profits of rich people and corporations, plus cutting waste in defense spending, plus closing tax loopholes, plus a ‘financial transactions tax’ on Wall Street, plus the federal taxes and tariffs already exacted, still would not cover the ambitious Democratic platform. > > ~Max So maybe they prioritize. Maybe some of the things don’t get done, or get done a bit differently. Perhaps the left and right work together and compromise to achieve some of the goals with the money available. A platform is an aspirational document, not a budget proposal. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/115 "2019-10-23T01:14:02Z")
Lol, Max S’s argument is effectively this: what the private sector provides is unprovidable. Max, “profits” are irrelevant. Revenues are. And if we, say, take the revenues of the health insurance industry, add $5/day/American (which our world-class, exceptional private sector can do easily, accd to conservative wisdom), we can privatize the entire industry and have coverage for all Americans. So stop talking about profits. It just hurts your argument. Look for revenues. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/116 "2019-10-23T02:08:17Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Cite? There’s no cite, my opinion is uninformed. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/117 "2019-10-23T02:18:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Lol, Max S’s argument is effectively this: what the private sector provides is unprovidable. > > Max, “profits” are irrelevant. Revenues are. And if we, say, take the revenues of the health insurance industry, add $5/day/American (which our world-class, exceptional private sector can do easily, accd to conservative wisdom), we can privatize the entire industry and have coverage for all Americans. > > So stop talking about profits. It just hurts your argument. Look for revenues. Sorry, shouldn’t just throw that number out there without a cite: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21895424&postcount=312](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21895424&postcount=312) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/118 "2019-10-23T02:33:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Lol, Max S’s argument is effectively this: what the private sector provides is unprovidable. I don’t think it’s laughable. If the private sector “provides” everything on the Democratic platform, we wouldn’t need a Democratic platform, would we? I thought the whole point of calling in the government was to provide what the private sector cannot or has not done on its own. I’m not just talking about healthcare. > [@JohnT](#): > > Max, “profits” are irrelevant. Revenues are. And if we, say, take the revenues of the health insurance industry, add $5/day/American (which our world-class, exceptional private sector can do easily, accd to conservative wisdom), we can privatize the entire industry and have coverage for all Americans. > > So stop talking about profits. It just hurts your argument. Look for revenues. I meant profits, we don’t generally go wild on sales taxes but we tax income (profits). I think something like 90% of government revenue comes from some sort of income tax - payroll tax, individual income tax, or corporate income tax. So I’m going with taxes on profits. Let’s say you take 100% _gross income_ from the top 1% of American taxpayers. My wild guess on the total from that source is about half a trillion dollars, maybe a little less. My wild guess on the gross income of the top U.S. corporations is somewhere around two trillion tops. Put these two together and we have something like two and a half trillion dollars per annum. There’s _no way_ you can fund all of this stuff with $2.5 trillion. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/119 "2019-10-23T02:45:58Z")
I’m not assuming anything. I ran a q&d analysis on an Urban Institute study about Bernie Sanders’s 2016 health care plan, (link provided to my post, you may read the rest of the thread for context). This? > [@](#): > > So I’m going with taxes on profits. Let’s say you take 100% gross income from the top 1% of American taxpayers. My wild guess on the total from that source is about half a trillion dollars, maybe a little less. My wild guess on the gross income of the top U.S. corporations is somewhere around two trillion tops. Put these two together and we have something like two and a half trillion dollars per annum. Is _literally_ a made up argument, complete with fake numbers which may or may not match reality, and has zero basis in this world and has almost nothing to do with the issues raised. And you _admit_ it, “wild guess”, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944/120 "2019-10-23T03:21:02Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m not assuming anything. I ran a q&d analysis on an Urban Institute study about Bernie Sanders’s 2016 health care plan, (link provided to my post, you may read the rest of the thread for context). > > This? > > Is _literally_ a made up argument, complete with fake numbers which may or may not match reality, and has zero basis in this world and has almost nothing to do with the issues raised. And you _admit_ it, “wild guess”, lol. I haven’t reviewed Mr. Sanders’s health care proposal, and I probably won’t get to it for a while. I once made a thread asking for resources to learn about Medicare-for-all plans, but nobody responded. I also crashed a thread on immigration reform, asked for some help producing a cost factor, then that thread died. I think there’s something I still need to respond to there, I have a draft of something lying around my office, I’ll get around to it eventually, because I genuinely want to know. Anyways, I am not (yet) disputing that a Medicare for all plan costs as little as $600bn/yr. There’s also a lot more to the Democratic platform and I want to see all of it accounted for in at least rough numbers. Rural investments, urban investments, criminal justice reforms, education reforms, etc. ETA: Quick search gives me an [IRS paper](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/soi-a-ints-id1801.pdf) (p. 9) that says the total income tax for the top 5% of Americans is some $3.8tn, so I’m way off there. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-democratic-partys-platform-destructive/841944.md?page=7)