# How is the Zimbabwe election going to shake out -- end for Mugabe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694 "2008-04-02T17:56:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/21 "2008-04-19T19:07:04Z")
Everyone even slightly close to Mugabe is looking for an out, while Mugabe is clinging to anything and everything to remain in power. The long and short of it is that if some solution isn’t found to remove him, say something similar to the Exile of Idi Amin, the entire country is going to burn and the loss of life could possibly be in the hundreds of thousands (at the extreme end of things). The unfortunate thing is that the “Southern African Leaders” have previously praised Mugabe and publicly refused to cricisize him, saying that such things aren’t helpful. In other words, they’re worthless and less than useless. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/22 "2008-04-19T19:10:04Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] There’s an absolutely huge shipment of arms from China [/QUOTE] Saw the article on [BBC.com](http://BBC.com), saw the pictures of the ship. I just thought “wow, a single 5 inch shell from a passing US warship…” But that would cause an international incident. So a better solution would be the US Navy’s Underwater Demolition Teams and a couple of small shaped charges. “Must’ve been an accident on board…” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/23 "2008-04-19T23:17:47Z")
Mugabe just can’t catch a break. [White people](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_af/zimbabwe_elections) keep fucking holding him down. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/24 "2008-04-21T06:57:45Z")
Rumours are that the ship has sunk. > **[The Star](https://www.iol.co.za/the-star)** > > \- ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/25 "2008-04-21T12:43:25Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] Rumours are that the ship has sunk. > **[The Star: Daily coverage of Johannesburg, Gauteng and National News,...](https://thestar.co.za/?fSectionId=&fArticleId=vn20080421061913853C819574)** > > Stay up to date with The Star – your trusted source for South African news, breaking stories, politics, sport, and opinion. [/QUOTE] Even if it hadn’t – how easy would it be to get the weapons from any seacoast of Southern Africa to landlocked Zimbabwe, now that everybody’s watching for them? ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/26 "2008-04-21T15:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Even if it hadn’t – how easy would it be to get the weapons from any seacoast of Southern Africa to landlocked Zimbabwe, now that everybody’s watching for them? [/QUOTE] Increasingly difficult. They need to find a port and a country willing to offload and transport. Mozambique and Tanzania have refused assistance, and at this stage it seems they are heading towards Luanda in Angola, which means going all the way around South Africa and up the west coast. This is good news, because there are suggestions that they might not have enough fuel to get to Luanda, so they will probably need to dock elsewhere. Which means more hassles and more delays, much to Mugabe’s dismay, no doubt. Further good news is that there is a South African court order against the shipment being transported across our territory, so even Mbeki is stymied (for the time being anyway). Apparantly pressure is already being brought to bear on the Angolan government to also refuse docking. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/27 "2008-04-21T21:01:10Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] Further good news is that there is a South African court order against the shipment being transported across our territory, so even Mbeki is stymied (for the time being anyway). [/QUOTE] Why does Mbeki support Mugabe anyway? (Or does he?) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/28 "2008-04-21T21:25:49Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] This is good news, because there are suggestions that they might not have enough fuel to get to Luanda, so they will probably need to dock elsewhere. [/QUOTE] Presuming the ship remains afloat, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/29 "2008-04-22T02:01:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why does Mbeki support Mugabe anyway? (Or does he?) [/QUOTE] The ZAPU and Mugabe gave a lot of help to the ANC during apartheid,giving them bases in Zimbabwe, weapons, and financial support. ZAPU and the ANC also engaged in joint guerrilla operations when ZAPU was fighting against the Rhodesian government. So, there’s an old alliance there. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/30 "2008-04-22T08:25:08Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Why does Mbeki support Mugabe anyway? (Or does he?) [/QUOTE] As \*\*Captain Amazing \*\* has pointed out, loyalty to old alliances seems to be the prevailing view. However, Mbeki is increasingly at odds with his own party on this score, so much so that, as per the _Mail and Guardian_: > [@](#): > > President Thabo Mbeki’s cherished policy of “quiet diplomacy” on Zimbabwe has been rejected by his own party. > > The split between the Union Buildings and Luthuli House on the issue became painfully apparent this week when Movement for Democratic Change leader Morgan Tsvangirai chose to meet African National Congress (ANC) president Jacob Zuma and secretary general Gwede Mantashe at ANC headquarters in Johannesburg. I’m of the opinion that Mbeki’s allegiance is a personal one, as it is clearly not one shared by the ANC as a whole. Why it is personal I really don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![DangleYourModifier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@DangleYourModifier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangleYourModifier)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/31 "2008-04-22T10:50:37Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] I’m of the opinion that Mbeki’s allegiance is a personal one, as it is clearly not one shared by the ANC as a whole. Why it is personal I really don’t know. [/QUOTE] There is talk that Graze Mugabe and Zanele Mbeki are cousins. In African culture, Mugabe is the older “brother” and is senior in status to Mbeki. I can’t seem to confirm this however. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/32 "2008-04-22T11:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=DangleYourModifier] There is talk that Graze Mugabe and Zanele Mbeki are cousins. In African culture, Mugabe is the older “brother” and is senior in status to Mbeki. I can’t seem to confirm this however. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I heard that too, also unconfirmed at this stage. Update, now Zambia has jumped on the “Bob is a poopyhead and his mother dresses him funny” bandwagon, according to BBC News: > [@](#): > > Zambian President Levy Mwanawasa has urged other African leaders to block the passage of a Chinese vessel carrying arms to Zimbabwe. Neighbouring nations are being urged to bar the ship from entering their territorial waters. The vessel was recently turned away from South Africa following a court ruling. The Durban High Court refused to allow the weapons on board to be transported across South Africa to landlocked Zimbabwe. So that makes it all the more difficult. If they dock in Angola, they only have Namibia/Botswana as an access point to Zimbabwe. BTW, **DYM** , where you from? ---
**Author:** ![DangleYourModifier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@DangleYourModifier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DangleYourModifier)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/33 "2008-04-22T12:23:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] BTW, DYM, where you from? [/QUOTE] Mostly Jo’burg but currently living in Centurion. If you want more obscure - I was born in Louis Trichardt. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/34 "2008-04-22T13:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=DangleYourModifier] Mostly Jo’burg but currently living in Centurion. If you want more obscure - I was born in Louis Trichardt. [/QUOTE] I see your Louis Trichardt and raise you a Jamestown. 😃 Been in Joeys since '86. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/35 "2008-04-22T13:28:49Z")
According to News24, Angola doesn’t seem to be a sure thing either. > [@](#): > > The ship left South Africa on Friday. Mozambique said on Saturday the vessel would not be allowed into its waters. Angola said on Monday the ship was not welcome there either. > > “This ship has not sought a request to enter Angolan territorial waters and it’s not authorised to enter Angolan ports,” Filomeno Mendonca, director of the Institute of Angolan Ports, told Luanda Radio LAC, a private Angolan radio station. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/36 "2008-04-22T13:51:25Z")
Baah - Gauties, get a room 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/37 "2008-04-22T14:06:24Z")
Oh, shut up. If it wasn’t for Gauteng you wouldn’t…you wouldn’t have…you would… Okay, I got nothin’. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/38 "2008-04-22T16:35:10Z")
Well, actually, if it wasn’t for [Gauteng](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_Humankind), none of us would be here.So they say. “they” are probably Gauties, too. I’m going outside now, to look at sunset on the Mountain. You know, THE Mountain 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Burton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Burton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Burton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/39 "2008-04-22T18:21:10Z")
Mugabe with a lot of blood on his hands and a whole lot of money to live out his few remaining years in some Arab state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694/40 "2008-04-22T18:41:38Z")
[QUOTE=Burton] Mugabe with a lot of blood on his hands and a whole lot of money to live out his few remaining years in some Arab state. [/QUOTE] [shrug] Worked for Idi Amin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-the-zimbabwe-election-going-to-shake-out-end-for-mugabe/443694.md?page=3)