# How is this possible? (Mother shot by toddler at Walmart) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569 "2014-12-30T21:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/181 "2015-01-03T13:12:28Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > No, having more weapons in the hands of \*responsible \*people makes the situation safer. Which is why the cops should not be called. Without a guarantee the person who responds is responsible, the risk of tragic stupidity goes up, not down. ---
**Author:** ![toast\_pakora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@toast\_pakora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toast_pakora)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/182 "2015-01-03T14:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > weapons in the hands of \*responsible \*people makes the situation safer I’m sure the woman in Walmart considered herself to be a responsible person. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/183 "2015-01-03T14:46:19Z")
Had some friends over for x-mas dinner. The husband is retired the wife still working. They are in there early 60’s. Let’s call them Jim and Jane. We live in an isolated area in the mountains. Jim knows that I have guns, and I know that he has a 9mm. Jim is a very calm friendly guy. Was a Marine. He is not at all the Ho-ya type though. Not at all. Anyway, he mentioned that he got his CCW. And asked if I have one. I do not. The subject came up because we where all talking about some shooting that happened. He carries when he goes to town. Denver. I had to ask ‘Jim’ if it was a pain in the ass to carry, and hard to conceal. He said it was. I’ve never had a desire to carry, but I always thought this would be an issue. Even living in an area where wearing some sort of coat is the norm for 6 months out of the year. I guess it just becomes natural after a while. But the way I was brought up around guns (got my first .22 when I was 9), I just couldn’t do it. When I am holding a gun, all my focus is on making sure it is safe. If I carried, open or otherwise, I would be so concentrated on the weapon that I would be distracted from the rest of life. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/184 "2015-01-03T15:33:24Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > **Pedantry**. :mad: pedanticism 1. the character or practices of a pedant, as excessive display of learning. 2. a slavish attention to rules, details, etc; pedantry. — pedant, n. — pedantic, adj. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/185 "2015-01-03T16:05:15Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > … Design a better option for women and I’ll join you and the rest of the finger-pointers. … Lots of on body carry options available, many many many specifically aimed at women. Look at the links already given. Do any of them allow a woman to wear any outfit she wants without having an unslightly bulge? No. So that then becomes a woman’s choice: dress on a manner that allows you to carry without the unslightly bulge or do not carry that day. Again, even _the promotors_ of purse carry explicitly acknowledge that purse carry is a risky thing to do by the very nature of the product. Sorry, a woman’s fashion needs do not trump her obligation to carry her weapon in the most responsible manner possible. Same state, Idaho, now allows college students with permits to conceal carry on campus. (Within a few months of the bill’s passage a professor managed to [shoot himself in the foot during class](http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/professor-who-shot-self-at-isu-identified/article_18228ab2-3383-11e4-af7e-001a4bcf887a.html).) If a purse is okay then a backpack should be also - it fits nicely in the outside zipper compartment. That’s not asking for trouble … ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/186 "2015-01-03T17:05:21Z")
> [@toast\_pakora](#): > > I’m sure the woman in Walmart considered herself to be a responsible person. Every idiot I ever met considered themselves a responsible person. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/187 "2015-01-03T17:28:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > If a purse is okay then a backpack should be also - it fits nicely in the outside zipper compartment. That’s not asking for trouble … That leads to an interesting question. If a monkey withdraws one’s pistol from one’s backpack whilst hiking, and shoots one dead, to whom belongs the honour of the killing ? Oneself or the monkey ? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/188 "2015-01-03T18:03:28Z")
It belongs to the monkey, just like if he steals your camera and takes a selfie the picture belongs to him. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/189 "2015-01-03T18:29:37Z")
It in truth is the parallel to this case. If you own a weapon then _you_ are responsible when a bad thing happens due to your negligence. This kid was not responsible for the death. The mother/victim was negligent and the whole concept of encouraging purse carry is to some degree a facilitator of negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/190 "2015-01-03T18:34:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Many gun rights proponents say more guns make society safer, without qualification. many gun opponents make statements like that without any factual basis. Well at least one opponent. What makes society safer are good parenting skills. In the absence of that it’s not possible to protect people on an individual level without giving them the ability to protect themselves. If I’m not carrying a gun then I’m carrying a knife. If not a knife then I carry other items that serve as weapons. I carry everything concealed unless a threat exists but I’ve found it quite useful to allow bad people to see a glimpse of a gun or knife handle. Guns are a useful tool for self defense. They provide a greater range of options and project a greater threat to those who want to harm you. They also come with a greater responsibility to keep them secure. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/191 "2015-01-03T18:48:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I carry everything concealed unless a threat exists but I’ve found it quite useful to allow bad people to see a glimpse of a gun or knife handle. That happens often? Good way to lose your CCW permit. (If you have one) That’s brandishing/displaying/whatever term your jurisdiction uses. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/192 "2015-01-03T19:00:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That happens often? Good way to lose your CCW permit. (If you have one) > > That’s brandishing/displaying/whatever term your jurisdiction uses. No it’s not. You don’t understand the meaning of the word. Nothing is touched, displayed, waved or otherwise deliberately shown. If someone were asked to describe what they saw they could not describe a gun. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/193 "2015-01-03T19:19:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No it’s not. You don’t understand the meaning of the word. Nothing is touched, displayed, waved or otherwise deliberately shown. If someone were asked to describe what they saw they could not describe a gun. [Utah](http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQ.html#8) > [@](#): > > There is no room for mistakes. If you pull a firearm on someone or even display the weapon, then it must be in self defense or it is not justified. [Florida](http://www.flcwla.com/faq.htm) > [@](#): > > Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are: > > ``` > Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm; > Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping. > > ``` > > Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/194 "2015-01-03T19:46:41Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > Every idiot I ever met considered themselves a responsible person. Hmmm. Recognizing that you are not responsible would be a something only someone very responsible could do … 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/195 "2015-01-03T22:01:57Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > And, you have misunderstood ‘the argument’. More weapons do not make a situation safer any more than less weapons make a situation safer. > Use/Need of weapons depends on the situation, not on a generality about which you do not understand. You seem to be suggesting that having more people carrying guns can lead to more unsafe situations. That isn’t the pro-gun lobby position as I understand it. Enlighten me. More people with guns = less crime and less gun incidents? I thought that was the general gist. I’m from a country where we never see guns so I’m working from a point of ignorance here. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/196 "2015-01-05T01:08:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > but I’ve found it quite useful to allow bad people to see a glimpse of a gun or knife handle. > > G You don’t feel this makes you a target? How hard would it be for some “bad guy” to get the jump on you and take your gun? Round here - we’re taught not to “flash cash” because it makes us a target. It seems to me, that if the “bad guys” know you’re carrying a gun, something that is very easily turned into cash - it is also easy for them to ambush you and take that gun. This doesn’t worry you? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/197 "2015-01-05T01:41:28Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > You don’t feel this makes you a target? > > How hard would it be for some “bad guy” to get the jump on you and take your gun? > > Round here - we’re taught not to “flash cash” because it makes us a target. > It seems to me, that if the “bad guys” know you’re carrying a gun, something that is very easily turned into cash - it is also easy for them to ambush you and take that gun. This doesn’t worry you? There’s a difference between flashing something about and letting a known threat guess you have a gun. “Bad” people look for soft targets not ones that pose a risk to them. And you can’t get the “jump” on someone who plans ahead and watches their surroundings. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/198 "2015-01-05T03:11:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There’s a difference between flashing something about and letting a known threat guess you have a gun. “Bad” people look for soft targets not ones that pose a risk to them. > > And you can’t get the “jump” on someone who plans ahead and watches their surroundings. You got eyes in the back of your head? You really think it’s so hard for someone to walk up behind you in a crowded place and smack you on the back of the head? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/199 "2015-01-05T03:14:20Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > You got eyes in the back of your head? > > You really think it’s so hard for someone to walk up behind you in a crowded place and smack you on the back of the head? Only if he gets hit by both hands at once. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/200 "2015-01-05T03:39:14Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > You got eyes in the back of your head? > > You really think it’s so hard for someone to walk up behind you in a crowded place and smack you on the back of the head? We drove off the topic, through a parking lot and are now in the weeds somewhere. And that’s where I’m leaving this exchange. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=11)