# How is this possible? (Mother shot by toddler at Walmart) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569 "2014-12-30T21:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/81 "2014-12-31T17:58:42Z")
If you know your handbag has a firearm in it, why would you EVER leave it unattended? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/82 "2014-12-31T18:04:06Z")
If she was a man I would expect lots of gun stroking/substitute penis jokes. But it’s a woman. Oh, I know! She must have penis envy! High five, Freud. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/83 "2014-12-31T18:16:37Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > All right, what about when someone gets shot with a squibb? There is probably negligence somewhere, but it’s not on the part of the shooter or the target. > > Also, I still think that an adult who should know better, wandering onto a military firing range during exercises is being stupid enough to deserve pretty much all the blame if he gets shot, and it’s an accident from the perspective of the person who fired the rifle. A squib is just a dud cartridge. The barrel still needs to be pointed at someone. If you mean blanks, they are known to be lethal at near skin touch range. Still requires safe handling. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/84 "2014-12-31T18:19:02Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If she was a man I would expect lots of gun stroking/substitute penis jokes. But it’s a woman. Oh, I know! She must have penis envy! High five, Freud. If she was the father instead of the mother I’d expect less argument over whether it was negligent or a “tragic accident.” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/85 "2014-12-31T18:22:32Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Can you imagine the Thanksgiving dinners? But seriously, I feel much more for the toddler than the mother. Imagine knowing you shot your own mother. Kid’s going to need a really, really good therapist. No, the kid probably won’t even remember his mother. Instead it will be the father who will feel extraordinarily guilty–remember upthread: > [@](#): > > So on Christmas morning last week, her husband gave her a present he hoped would make her life more comfortable: a purse with a special pocket for a concealed weapon. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/86 "2014-12-31T18:25:44Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Exactly. Not a surprise to those of us in the PNW, I’m afraid. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/87 "2014-12-31T18:26:54Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > It’s America. Find a similar story anywhere else on earth. The gun culture here sucks but at least we don’t have to worry about mother nature murdering us every time we step outside like you do. > [@susan](#): > > It’s hard for me to imagine that leaving a loaded gun where a toddler can reach it isn’t considered child neglect or abuse. Indeed, in my state, I’ve had to report a similar situation that was less egregious than this appears to be. You’re right, they should lock her up and throw away the key. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/88 "2014-12-31T18:31:58Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The implication is that you did not exercise due diligence prior to the calamitous explosion you described. You even admitted that you were “not thinking” when you tried to quickly clear the initial jam. Although the weapon malfunctioned, an argument could be made that you were in fact negligent and caused a negligent discharge. On the one hand you (and my 2004 self) may be correct; it was my fault for not properly evaluating the situation more carefully. But on the other hand, it’s been my experience that firearms instructors want you to [_ **very** _ quickly clear a jam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_rack_bang). Looking back, I think my biggest failure was putting my head near the ejection port & looking in _while_ actively trying to chamber a round. I will never do that again. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/89 "2014-12-31T18:32:00Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > Can you imagine the Thanksgiving dinners? But seriously, I feel much more for the toddler than the mother. Imagine knowing you shot your own mother. Kid’s going to need a really, really good therapist. ↑↑↑ This… IMO, it will be because his relatives and so called friends will bring it up at every opportunity or make an opportunity. He will be reminded of it oh so innocently almost everyday. The odds of him actually remembering are what? 50/50 Less? What % of the population can remember if they have had a traumatic event at, say one day before they are 3 so actually / legally still 2 for hysterical headlines… I digress… Right now, he does not need therapy nearly as much as protection from all friends & relatives. IMO Hanging this around the neck of a really young kid is much worse than the mistake his mother made. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/90 "2014-12-31T18:42:53Z")
> [@ataraxy22](#): > > Darwinized-by-proxy. Too bad the proxy is her own spawn! I don’t think she was Darwinized. She produced offspring, so even if she is dead, her genes survive. Darwinizing is taking someone out before they breed, ¿no? ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/91 "2014-12-31T18:42:59Z")
It was time to change his diaper and he didn’t like the idea so… He was standing his own ground! Seriously, where are the laws that give me the right to shop at Walmart or the mall without any danger of being shot? I’m really uncomfortable with the idea of being in large crowds if some are carrying…I know how stupid some people are. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/92 "2014-12-31T18:59:17Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > It was time to change his diaper and he didn’t like the idea so… > He was standing his own ground! > > Seriously, where are the laws that give me the right to shop at Walmart or the mall without any danger of being shot? I’m really uncomfortable with the idea of being in large crowds if some are carrying…I know how stupid some people are. What’s the point of concealed carry anyway? Shouldn’t people have to openly display their weapons, so the rest of us can fairly assess our risks? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/93 "2014-12-31T19:01:07Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > where are the laws that give me the right to shop at Walmart or the mall without any danger of being shot? You do not have - and cannot have - a right to “complete and absolute safety.” Life is _full_ of risks and dangers. With all the dangers that are lurking out there, law-abiding citizens who carry a CHL for self protection should be the least of your worries. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/94 "2014-12-31T19:04:48Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What’s the point of concealed carry anyway? Shouldn’t people have to openly display their weapons, so the rest of us can fairly assess our risks? There are advantages and disadvantages to CC and OC. I do both, though I would estimate I OC 80% of the time. The best policy is to allow a citizen to freely choose to CC or OC. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/95 "2014-12-31T19:04:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > You do not have - and cannot have - a right to “complete and absolute safety.” Life is _full_ of risks and dangers. > > With all the dangers that are lurking out there, law-abiding citizens who carry a CHL for self protection should be the least of your worries. I report anyone carrying a gun in a store to the police. It is not my job to determine which have a permit, and which don’t. Report 'em all, let the cops sort it out. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/96 "2014-12-31T19:07:57Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The hunter claimed he had been following some small animal, and the kid rustled some brush right where he lost sight of the animal, and so he fired. That sounds to me like a dumb thing to do, but the closest I’ve ever come to hunting is playing Oregon Trail; maybe it’s standard practice. “People ask me how I do it and I say there’s nothing to it. You just stand there looking cute and when something moves - YOU SHOOT!” ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/97 "2014-12-31T19:10:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I report anyone carrying a gun in a store to the police. It is not my job to determine which have a permit, and which don’t. Report 'em all, let the cops sort it out. Ahhh, so you’re one of _them_. :rolleyes: So if I’m eating ice cream with my kids at the local mall, and you happen see the 9 mm holstered on my hip, you will call the police? You will do this even though this is Ohio, where there are no laws that forbid OC? :dubious: Just to let you know, my LEO buddies _ **really really** _ despise people who call 911 to report a MWAG who is otherwise being lawful & peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/98 "2014-12-31T19:11:59Z")
The WaPo story linked in post #53 says definitively that the gun was stashed in a zippered pouch inside the purse, the child had to open the pouch, take the gun out and shoot. He shot her in the head, which sounds like miles from “an accident”. That story says that the family were gun enthusiasts. So, I can easily imagine that the 2-y/o had been exposed to, saturated with gun culture from the moment they snipped his umbilical cord. He knew the gun was there. He knew how to use it. Just, no one had told him “no backsies”. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/99 "2014-12-31T19:13:07Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Idaho at least used to have some sort of state license to buy and/or sale; at least back in the late 70s. I know; I got one to complete the private sale of a shotgun from a relative while I was visiting there. . . . It’s not listed on their[information page](http://www.idaho.gov/laws_rules/firearm.html). Oddly, I couldn’t find any online reference to licenses to sell at all. All the information that Google pulled up is about permits to buy. I did find federal requirements for background checks for handguns. And that Idaho has a law that says it doesn’t apply to guns manufactured and sold withing the state. So I can’t swear that there wasn’t or isn’t a permit requied to sell. Regarding militia and survivalist groups in Idaho, for decades Idaho has had full page ads in right wing newsletters and magazines advertising “Idaho - The Way America Used To Be.” It’s one of the reasons they have a lot of California retirees living there, my parents among them, once. My mom died in Idaho after being married twice. She had inherited two rifles from my dad and a couple dozen from her second husband, who had been a hunter and pistol target shooter. We asked local gun sellers and the local police about the rules and permits and were told that we could sell them any way we wanted. So we went the yard sale and flea market route. There was a local policeman at the flea market selling knives. He came over to check out the guns and didn’t say anything about permits. I don’t think he bought one. I’m pretty sure they weren’t manufactured in Idaho, at least not all of them, so the exception law wouldn’t have applied. I’m really grateful that Mom had sold or given away Husband 2’s cannisters of gunpowder. Apparently it’s not uncommon for target shooters to pack their own cartridges. That way they’re sure each load is exactly the same and exactly the load they prefer. I was not looking forward to having to deal with that and was relieved when I didn’t have to. Oh, and going through her things I found a CC permit. You know how DMV pictures always make you look too sick to drive? CC permit pictures look like mug shots. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/100 "2014-12-31T19:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=Rock Party] Seriously, where are the laws that give me the right to shop at Walmart or the mall without any danger of being shot? I’m really uncomfortable with the idea of being in large crowds if some are carrying…I know how stupid some people are. [/QUOTE] Actually, you are far safer if everyone around you is armed, since if a crazed killer next to you suddenly whips out a gun or knife everyone can react with the speed of lightning and blaze away in the general direction of the threat. An armed society is a polite society. Just like Ancient Rome. Still, at long last this incident may enable true patriots to begin the much-needed subsidized **Gun Handling Lessons for Babies and Toddlers in Kindergartens**. Defying objections from that commie in the White House. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=6)