# How is this possible? (Mother shot by toddler at Walmart) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569 "2014-12-30T21:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/121 "2015-01-01T00:37:58Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Different situations & circumstances demand different strategies. Strategies?? Dude, you’re not at war with anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/122 "2015-01-01T00:38:06Z")
I don’t know if that purse holster had any sort of retention device besides the zipper. Maybe a thumb break might have baffled a 2 year old. I think a finger break definitely would have. Here’s another thing that bothers me, though. Why would any parent choose to go grocery shopping with 4 children? Leave them home with the husband, dammit! Or I’ve seen mom and dad with 3 kids going grocery shopping. Why do you need the whole crew? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/123 "2015-01-01T00:47:33Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Here’s another thing that bothers me, though. Why would any parent choose to go grocery shopping with 4 children? Leave them home with the husband, dammit! Or I’ve seen mom and dad with 3 kids going grocery shopping. Why do you need the whole crew? She wasn’t grocery shopping; she was at Walmart. The kids got gift cards for Christmas and they went to Walmart to spend them. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/124 "2015-01-01T01:19:53Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > She wasn’t grocery shopping; she was at Walmart. The kids got gift cards for Christmas and they went to Walmart to spend them. Many Walmarts are also grocery stores. And did this story of a baby and a gun make anyone else think of Maggie Simpson? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/125 "2015-01-01T01:37:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is not a crime to report a man with a gun to 911. It is not bogus because there is a man, and he has a gun. It is not my duty to determine if a crime is being committed, that is the job of law enforcement. They get hundreds of calls a day that turn out to be legal activity; that does not mean the person making the call has committed a crime. Except, he’s not committing a crime. It may look a wee excessive, but he’s not doing anything wrong. There’s no law against open carry, so why are you calling 911? They have more important shit to deal with. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone open-carry around here, so it probably would make me :dubious:, but I wouldn’t report it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/126 "2015-01-01T01:46:07Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Except, he’s not committing a crime. How do I know he has a permit? How do I know he is not a felon? See something, say something. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/127 "2015-01-01T02:02:53Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > She wasn’t grocery shopping; she was at Walmart. The kids got gift cards for Christmas and they went to Walmart to spend them. They are usually pretty well stocked on gauze and bandaids. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/128 "2015-01-01T02:37:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How do I know he has a permit? Here in Ohio, you do not need a permit or license to open carry. (Unless you’re in a vehicle.) But even if a permit _were_ required, so what? When I see someone driving down the road (and doing so peacefully), should I call the police? Because after all, they _ **might** _ not have a driver license. :eek: If you _know_ open carry is perfectly legal, and if witness an open carrier being peaceful and law-abiding, then it makes absolutely no sense to call the police. It’s completely unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/129 "2015-01-01T02:52:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > If you _know_ open carry is perfectly legal, and if witness an open carrier being peaceful and law-abiding, then it makes absolutely no sense to call the police. It’s completely unreasonable. Then you have nothing to worry about. The risk is all mine. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/130 "2015-01-01T02:57:51Z")
Crafter Man, do you have a type of career that requires you to carry? That I don’t object to. It’s the “it’s my right to carry so I carry” crowd that I’m afraid of. Why does any mother headed to Walmart with four kids need a gun? So if there’s a problem she can “sort it out” by popping a cap in someone’s ass? It makes no sense, it’s taking the law in your own hands, it’s deciding YOU’RE the decider. I don’t trust her to be the decider. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/131 "2015-01-01T04:14:36Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > It’s not listed on their[information page](http://www.idaho.gov/laws_rules/firearm.html). Oddly, I couldn’t find any online reference to licenses to sell at all. All the information that Google pulled up is about permits to buy. I did find federal requirements for background checks for handguns. And that Idaho has a law that says it doesn’t apply to guns manufactured and sold withing the state. So I can’t swear that there wasn’t or isn’t a permit requied to sell. > > Regarding militia and survivalist groups in Idaho, for decades Idaho has had full page ads in right wing newsletters and magazines advertising “Idaho - The Way America Used To Be.” It’s one of the reasons they have a lot of California retirees living there, my parents among them, once. > > My mom died in Idaho after being married twice. She had inherited two rifles from my dad and a couple dozen from her second husband, who had been a hunter and pistol target shooter. We asked local gun sellers and the local police about the rules and permits and were told that we could sell them any way we wanted. So we went the yard sale and flea market route. > > There was a local policeman at the flea market selling knives. He came over to check out the guns and didn’t say anything about permits. I don’t think he bought one. I’m pretty sure they weren’t manufactured in Idaho, at least not all of them, so the exception law wouldn’t have applied. > > I’m really grateful that Mom had sold or given away Husband 2’s cannisters of gunpowder. Apparently it’s not uncommon for target shooters to pack their own cartridges. That way they’re sure each load is exactly the same and exactly the load they prefer. I was not looking forward to having to deal with that and was relieved when I didn’t have to. > > Oh, and going through her things I found a CC permit. You know how DMV pictures always make you look too sick to drive? CC permit pictures look like mug shots. My Idaho experience was far enough back that I would be surprised if things hadn’t changed. Back then it was almost a required card for even residents to buy or sell anything firearms related. If I remember right it even covered some muzzleloader stuff. Not as strict as New Jersey’s - but pretty tight. I believe it was called a “collectors license” as opposed to a “dealers”. I do recall the differentiation between things made inside the state borders though. Federally, long guns and handguns can be passed down “father to son” without transfer but selling handguns outside the direct family line should require at least basic paperwork/instant background check. Unless that has changed too. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/132 "2015-01-01T04:36:59Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Why does any mother headed to Walmart with four kids need a gun? The response you will often get is, “_Who are **you** to decide what **I** need_\*???\*\*\*” Because, you know, Freedom. Then, there is this: [quote=“[The Well Armed Woman – About Concealed Carry Purses] ([http://thewellarmedwoman.com/index.php?\_route\_=the-concealed-carry-purse](http://thewellarmedwoman.com/index.php?_route_=the-concealed-carry-purse))”]… My opinion is just that, my opinion and really only matters to me in making the decision for myself. What do I know? I know that awareness and practice are key. Do I carry in a concealed carry purse? Yes, sometimes I do. Why? Because there are times that if I didn’t, I wouldn’t have my gun with me, and that is not an option for me. (As long as it is legal) [/quote] Some people feel wrong leaving the house without make-up on, or clean underwear, or their smart-phone. For some people, they feel that way about their gun. Seems a bit irrational, but if it keeps them from cowering in terror of what might happen, either they need therapy or they need to have their gun. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/133 "2015-01-01T04:45:34Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Why does any mother headed to Walmart with four kids need a gun? So if there’s a problem she can “sort it out” by popping a cap in someone’s ass? It makes no sense, it’s taking the law in your own hands, it’s deciding YOU’RE the decider. I don’t trust her to be the decider. I’ve been on both sides of the street. When my job required it, it did. When my job forbade it, I didn’t. When I lived rural, I did. The cops were over 30 minutes away at best and I’m not going to leave it in my car out of my control - it stayed on me even when I went shopping. Here in the city, not so much - although there are times. I am perfectly happy in England or Germany where basically no one has a firearm and I’ve enjoyed my life in a few places where someone without a gun was so exceptional as to be a topic of regular conversation. I’m generally pretty neutral in most of these debates. But I have to ask - the reason I should allow you to be the decider for her is? What? If she felt there was a need; just who are you to say different? You say you don’t trust her but you seem short of reasons for me to trust you. If you got them, I’m open to listening. Yes; some people are willing to take the law (in terms of their personal defense) into their own hands. But its mostly because a pretty fair sized segment is already committed to taking the law into their own hands - in other words your basic criminal. Since the job of the police is to protect the society and not the individual, are we really all that surprised that some people (even mothers with children) feel the need to protect themselves? Give me the right to hold the police responsible if I’m robbed or injured by a bad guy and maybe I’ll join you on your side of the fence. Give me the right to sue the Chief and Mayor if I get stabbed on the South Side and I’ll happily give up my right to carry or even own. But as things stand in the world right now here in the good old USA? I’ll stick around the middle and keep my permits in line for when I want them. ---
**Author:** ![DingoelGringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@DingoelGringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DingoelGringo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/134 "2015-01-01T04:46:02Z")
I think of it as evolution in action, but little late since she already had 4 kids, but if she was so stupid she had a gun loaded in her purse without even the safety on she had it coming. Different guns have different pulls, I had a hair trigger once that I had to get adjusted because I was afraid that it would get bumped and go off. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/135 "2015-01-01T04:48:22Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The response you will often get is, “_Who are **you** to decide what **I** need_\*???\*\*\*” Because, you know, Freedom. > > . I won’t copy and paste but you do note “freedom” is not a term I used at all? I don’t know that I ever have. More often I’ll talk about “responsibility”. But that could just be me. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/136 "2015-01-01T04:48:49Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > I think of it as evolution in action, but little late since she already had 4 kids … One kid. The other three were not hers. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/137 "2015-01-01T04:51:02Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I won’t copy and paste but you do note “freedom” is not a term I used at all? I don’t know that I ever have. More often I’ll talk about “responsibility”. But that could just be me. I was not referencing anything you said. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/138 "2015-01-01T04:56:39Z")
> [@DingoelGringo](#): > > I think of it as evolution in action, but little late since she already had 4 kids, but if she was so stupid she had a gun loaded in her purse\*\* without even the safety on\*\* she had it coming. Different guns have different pulls, I had a hair trigger once that I had to get adjusted because I was afraid that it would get bumped and go off. A lot of handguns don’t have a traditional safety. Practically no revolver does, many semi-autos have trigger or internal safeties that prevent the gun from going off if dropped or the trigger is snagged. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/139 "2015-01-01T05:03:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How do I know he has a permit? How do I know he is not a felon? See something, say something. It shouldn’t be up to him to prove he’s not a felon. It should be up to you to prove he is. Of course, in most states, I believe most felons aren’t supposed to own guns, so I doubt they’d be stupid enough to do so openly. :dubious: I confess, I’d be a wee freaked out if I saw it around here, but that’s only because it’s really not all that common around here. However, my first thought wouldn’t be that, “OH MY GOD, CALL THE POLICE CRIMINAL CRIMINAL CRIMINAL CRIMINAL!!!” I’ve been around gun owners all my life. And most of them are normal, sane individuals. Yeah, there are a lot of idiots with guns out there. THOSE are the people who scare me the most. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/140 "2015-01-01T05:16:33Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > No, the kid probably won’t even remember his mother. Instead it will be the father who will feel extraordinarily guilty–remember upthread: The kid might not remember her, but I’m sure he’ll learn what he did - unless his family decides to keep it from him (which might not be a bad idea). But yes, the father is probably not feeling too great either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=8)