# How is this possible? (Mother shot by toddler at Walmart) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569 "2014-12-30T21:49:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/161 "2015-01-01T22:02:37Z")
A toddler’s hands are probably small enough yet large enough to hold a pistol and get both index fingers inside the the trigger guard of a small auto pistol. And if it was a DAO or D/SA pistol, I can see it happening. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/162 "2015-01-01T23:09:33Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > … and no amount of sputtering “But the bad ones are a minority” on either of our parts is going to make us trust each other. … This last bit does seem to be the key part of the “discussion” … actual quantifiable risks are for most on both sides vanishingly small. Again, over 11 million licensed concealed carries, and given the nature of this country a fair number of them numbnuts, yes events in which concealed carry causes a problem are rare enough that they almost all make the news. Mostly even the half of America that is below average in intelligence manages to do this without causing harms. Odds that anyone carrying will actually be in a situation in which they will deter a baddie? For the vast majority of those who carry, also vanishingly small. Really my worry is that people carrying are a source of weapons to be stolen and gotten more into the hands of the baddies … ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/163 "2015-01-02T02:14:51Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Well, in all honesty, you’re not exactly presenting reasons for us to trust her, either. I did not speak to her particular circumstance because I doubt that any of us know of it at this point. In the words of the one old radio broadcaster, we don’t know the rest of the story. We both know she made a mistake and paid the ultimate price but neither of us knows what led up to that point. I did however give quite a few details about myself and my choices starting with the line “I’ve been on both sides of the street.”. So I will ask directly - where in that post or any post I have made, have I ever given you cause not to trust my judgement in this personal decision? To be equally honest as you were (and I do truly appreciate your post), the more I read posts such as some of those in this thread and some of the threads in GD, the more I feel attuned to the “we need guns” crowd. To be frank, I don’t like a lot of them much more than you do. But the folks on your side of the fence never seem to have a good response to my questions about our personal safety; who is responsible for it and just what is his or her title? If it comes down to me being responsible for myself, why do we want to automatically disqualify one of my available tools? For me violent criminals are not a theory; I’ve had relatives as victims of crime and been a crime victim myself. This, for me, is reality and I live with it every day. I wish I could afford to live in a gated and guarded community where someone is indeed tasked with my personal safety. Problem is that on 15K a year I’m doubting I can find one. Pushing 60 with some serious health issues, I doubt kung-fu is much of a choice either. The landlords I have had have been required to provide smoke alarms/fire protection but not burglar alarms or personal protection. Some do, I would think - but those aren’t the ones in the inner city where I live; more some of the far suburban communities where the upper-middle class folks are. And while the alarms may be affordable, the monthly contracts can be as much as or more than my health care payments. We fought for an affordable form of health care, right? Why haven’t we been also fighting for an affordable form of “personal care” as well? I don’t see a lot of options out there for any of us who qualify as working poor. The “gun nut” side would say we already have one with “our” firearms and carry laws. OK - I’m not sure I accept that one myself. But do you have anything better to offer in response? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/164 "2015-01-02T02:36:21Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I did not speak to her particular circumstance because I doubt that any of us know of it at this point. In the words of the one old radio broadcaster, we don’t know the rest of the story. We both know she made a mistake and paid the ultimate price but neither of us knows what led up to that point. We do know that she was demonstrably incapable of responsibly carrying of a firearm. Does it matter what chain of hypothetical events led up to that moment? When your own kid accidentally kills you with your own gun, _you have failed_ the gun safety test. Same applies for you accidentally killing yourself, or your kid, with your gun: you have proven, in the most direct way possible, that you could not be trusted with a gun. (I do support RTKBA and OC.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/165 "2015-01-02T04:58:56Z")
The problem with women carrying a weapon in a purse is the lifetime bad habit most have of leaving it unattended. If you’re going to carry one in a purse then carry the purse. Better yet use a [holster like this](http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/228355/bulldog-cell-phone-holster-ccw-holster-ambidextrous-ruger-lcp-kel-tec-p32-p3at-kahr-p380-taurus-738-tcp-vinyl-black?srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=42-23970262-2&ads=&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-pf_ci_google-_-pf_ci_google-_-pf_ci_google). Perfect for the micro- 380’s. I still remember a woman at work dumping her purse out and a 38 special lands on the table. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/166 "2015-01-02T07:23:25Z")
Several years ago I dropped mine on the floor and it slid at least 5 feet across the room. It fell from my man purse in a Post Office full of people. No one even blinked. Way back in high school, a friend and I would go hunting on Saturday’s in the strip pits East of Tulsa. He carried a 16 gauge Pump, a Nylon 66 .22 rifle, a 357 Pistol, a S&W .22 target semi auto, a hatchet, hunting knife, steel rods that were our cooking spit, fire making tools & matches and a salt shaker. I carried my double Barrel 12 gauge, a Nylon 66 .22 rifle, an old .45 revolver of the kind with a lanyard attached to the butt. My K.22 S&W target revolver, my hatchet, hunting knife, and the package of Rum Crook cigars and the 3-4 each of magnum shot gun shells if we had any money to use. I also carried the pepper. Of course we both had pocket knives that would not be legal today. On the one Saturday, we were parked along HY 33 ( now US 412 ) and had just gotten loaded up when a Okla High Way Patrol cruiser pulled up. The trouper walked up and asked what was up. We said we were going rabbit hunting. What we would do is get a rabbit, clean & hang it in a bush and then go get rabbit #2, clean him and hang him in a bush. Go back to the first one, make a fire, put him on spit and salt & pepper to taste, eat and enjoy a seegar… The we went looking for #3, kill, clean & hang in a bush and go back to #2 and cook, eat & smoke a Rum Seegar… We would target shoot, practice running and rolling down the pit slopes with the rifles & pistols and getting shots off at make shift targets on the roll. When the Trouper heard all this, he shook his head, Said, “You boys be careful now.” Even in the brand new Catholic High School run by Christian Brothers from Chicago, 10 to 12 cars in the parking lot always had shotguns or rifles in the racks or the back window shelf. Plum normal for us. Never had a complaint or had any police getting all worried. Never had any trouble, even from the trouble kids. The stories of that year, riding my horse to school, the time Central seniors rolled into the lot in about a dozen cars and the senior boys had been warned and we were all out hiding in our cars, we blocked them in, read to them out of the book & sent them back. Walked back into class and not a teacher one said anything to us. And that was not a normal thing. he he he Then Brothers were strong, mean & did not take any guff. What a blast that year was. Now we have people who are not smart enough to tell who you talk or show weapons to and those you do not. Now I have friends that are great people but have on online sense. I never open anything they send me. Back then, you did not show off guns to non-gun kids or adults. I wonder where all this current stupid has come from? So how old was the kid? 13 months = toddler ( still can be called a 2 year old ) IMO, 2 years and 11 months is a 2 year old too but no way a toddler IMO. Some folks make fatal mistakes, does not mean that everyone can be totally protected and that seems to be the outcry about this event. Strange times we are living in. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/167 "2015-01-02T13:35:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t care what their personal character flaws are. If they don’t want to investigate a report of gun being carried in a store, that is their prerogative. But it certainly isn’t against the law for me to report it when you carry a gun in public. See something, say something. And if you have to interact with the cops every time you open carry, well that’s just gravy. If recent events have taught me anything, it is that we should not assume cops will always respond to a call in a rational, unprejudiced, fact-driven manner. Calling the cops “just to be on the safe side” might very well get an innocent person killed, assaulted, or arrested. Would you really be ok if this outcome occurred simply because the sight of a gun put a bee in your bonnet? By calling the cops on someone just mind their business, you’re only inviting more loaded weapons into the vicinity. This is not a smart move. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/168 "2015-01-02T14:55:09Z")
As a kid I’d have never ever reached into Mom’s purse. It just simply was not done. It was off limits period. On another note, I love this board but wonder if this Mom had been some “trailer trash” how much more joking and piling on would be happening? Some of the comments about how this kid was handed a gun as soon as the umbilical cord was cut? I understand hyperbole but this is a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/169 "2015-01-02T15:47:26Z")
> [@Mr.Goob](#): > > As a kid I’d have never ever reached into Mom’s purse. It just simply was not done. It was off limits period. This was a two year old. You aren’t remembering yourself at 2, or what the rules were at 2. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/170 "2015-01-02T15:57:22Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > So how old was the kid? 13 months = toddler ( still can be called a 2 year old ) IMO, 2 years and 11 months is a 2 year old too but no way a toddler IMO. By what arithmetic can a 13 month old be called a two year old? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/171 "2015-01-02T16:06:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Some of the comments about how this kid was handed a gun as soon as the umbilical cord was cut? I understand hyperbole but this is a bit much. If it was said the umbilical cord was cut by shooting it, now THAT would be hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/172 "2015-01-02T16:13:27Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > We do know that she was demonstrably incapable of responsibly carrying of a firearm. Does it matter what chain of hypothetical events led up to that moment? When your own kid accidentally kills you with your own gun, _you have failed_ the gun safety test. Same applies for you accidentally killing yourself, or your kid, with your gun: you have proven, in the most direct way possible, that you could not be trusted with a gun. > (I do support RTKBA and OC.) You make good points outside the questions I raised so lets give them a (pardon the language) shot. My mileage is slightly different; if I may have a moment to explain. My wife and I both prefer a S&W Model 49 for personal defense. You and I could debate specifics but I think you will agree that by design and quality that’s a pretty stable platform. The chances of something unintended happening is far less than with something like a Sterling or Raven .25. We also grew up around enough different guns and have had enough formal training to follow the logic in that statement. The issue becomes slightly different though when we want to go concealed carry. Being male, with the basic body type and typical clothing, there are at least 6 different ways/places I can pack a 49 and have the weapon basically be invisible. With her basic body type and clothing, there really isn’t one. Which throws the choice to a vest, fanny pack or purse. And you will have to admit that no matter how good you are, all three have issues in terms of the safe handling side of safety. Or going with “second best” like a small frame DA automatic or a “over/under” two shot. And there can be problems there if you don’t train and prepare for them. Without 50 years of learning, would we know this? Now this lady ------- things I don’t know and things that make me the resist the urge to call her a total idiot make a big list. Why was she packing? What specific firearm did she have and why? What was her level of experience and training? What are the requirements in Idaho? Is there an active NRA or “guns and gals” program around her? Did she seek any advice or training? Did she get good advice or training or some of the useless drivel we find on the internet? There a dozen or so more if I wanted to list them all. If she tried to be responsible and failed, I feel bad. If she didn’t try and failed, good she’s gone. If open carry (being the safest way to carry some would say) was allowed and accepted (which we can see from the other current thread ain’t gonna happen any time soon) - yeah, she’s an idiot and the gene pool is better without her. But since the reality is closer to CCW or nothing and a form of “sexism” (in a manner of speaking) being inherent in CCW, I just don’t see labeling her either way as productive. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/173 "2015-01-02T16:58:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > By calling the cops on someone just mind their business, you’re only inviting more loaded weapons into the vicinity. This is not a smart move. I though the argument was that having _more_ weapons make a situation safer? Have I been misled? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/174 "2015-01-02T17:00:02Z")
We do know the answers to some of your questions, **kopek** She was, per her friends, “packing” not out of fear but just because that’s what she does as a normative behavior for her in her family. She was raised around guns - they are “gun people”. The purse was a Christmas present from her husband. She was no idiot. She used her purse the way people use purses. Educate me please. The rules of concealed carry require that the weapon be under your control at all times, correct? A purse by its nature is _always_ less under your control. See **GuNSpot** ’s anecdote about his man purse spill. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > it slid at least 5 feet across the room. It fell from my man purse in a Post Office full of people … Now there wasn’t a small kid around to pick it up, no disaster occurred … but secured on his body such would not have been _possible_ to occur. He’s also “gun people” and that was how seriously he handled keeping his concealed carry weapon under his control at all times. Here is how [some](http://www.corneredcat.com/article/practical-issues/concealed-carry-purses/) [sites](http://thewellarmedwoman.com/index.php?_route_=concealed-carry-holsters-for-women) that _promote_ concealed carry in purses as a reasonable fashion choice discuss it. > [@](#): > > There are just too many ways off-body carry can go wrong. But there are times and places where purse carry — and only purse carry — makes sense. For this reason, I believe every woman who carries a gun should own at least one holster purse, so she can easily cope with the rare circumstances where on-body carry won’t work for her. > > Further, many women will not carry at all unless they can carry in their purses, and most of these women simply will not attempt on-body carry under any circumstances whatsoever. While the advantages of carrying on-body are significant, I’d certainly rather have my friends armed with a less than ideal carry method if the other choice is for them not to be armed at all. > [@](#): > > the body carry is superior in all aspects, and the recommended form of concealed and carry. Thieves will target your purse for your money and credit cards, which lands them with your firearm too. A firearm that is carried in a purse is also at great risk of a child or other innocent accidentally getting ahold of your firearm and of course the results could be tragic. A great responsibility that comes with firearm ownership and carrying a weapon is its security and inaccessibility to others, especially children. The nature of a purse, its very design, makes control of the weapon at all times less likely to happen in comparison to on-body carry. Even their promoters recognize that. Sorry ladies, but it does not seem reasonable to state that your fashion needs trump the requirement to be 100% sure that those who conceal carry are in control of the weapon at all times when it is clear that even intelligent people, reared around guns and very experienced with them, will not consistently and reliably carry in a purse in manner that assures the weapon is under their control at all times. This is too far “less than ideal.” ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/175 "2015-01-03T02:01:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Educate me please. The rules of concealed carry require that the weapon be under your control at all times, correct? Actually, I don’t believe so. And in some states “control” is rather loosely defined. In the glove compartment of your car while you are in WallyWorld may (depending on your location) be under your control. > [@DSeid](#): > > The nature of a purse, its very design, makes control of the weapon at all times less likely to happen in comparison to on-body carry. There we can agree. Design a better option for women and I’ll join you and the rest of the finger-pointers. Until then I’ll just remain sad for her and her family. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/176 "2015-01-03T02:46:28Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > You make good points outside the questions I raised so lets give them a (pardon the language) shot. > > My mileage is slightly different; if I may have a moment to explain. My wife and I both prefer a S&W Model 49 for personal defense. You and I could debate specifics but I think you will agree that by design and quality that’s a pretty stable platform. The chances of something unintended happening is far less than with something like a Sterling or Raven .25. We also grew up around enough different guns and have had enough formal training to follow the logic in that statement. > > The issue becomes slightly different though when we want to go concealed carry. Being male, with the basic body type and typical clothing, there are at least 6 different ways/places I can pack a 49 and have the weapon basically be invisible. With her basic body type and clothing, there really isn’t one. Which throws the choice to a vest, fanny pack or purse. And you will have to admit that no matter how good you are, all three have issues in terms of the safe handling side of safety. Or going with “second best” like a small frame DA automatic or a “over/under” two shot. And there can be problems there if you don’t train and prepare for them. Without 50 years of learning, would we know this? > > Now this lady ------- things I don’t know and things that make me the resist the urge to call her a total idiot make a big list. Why was she packing? What specific firearm did she have and why? What was her level of experience and training? What are the requirements in Idaho? Is there an active NRA or “guns and gals” program around her? Did she seek any advice or training? Did she get good advice or training or some of the useless drivel we find on the internet? There a dozen or so more if I wanted to list them all. If she tried to be responsible and failed, I feel bad. If she didn’t try and failed, good she’s gone. > > If open carry (being the safest way to carry some would say) was allowed and accepted (which we can see from the other current thread ain’t gonna happen any time soon) - yeah, she’s an idiot and the gene pool is better without her. But since the reality is closer to CCW or nothing and a form of “sexism” (in a manner of speaking) being inherent in CCW, I just don’t see labeling her either way as productive. Women are catered for by the gun industry — apart from the ever-amusing fine old tradition of slipping it in the back waistband of one’s trousers — just googling shows **[Gun Goddess](http://www.gungoddess.com/on-body-carry/)** with a range including Lace Ankle Holsters, Back-Up Waistband Holsters, Concealment Shorts, CanCan Concealment Garter Holsters, Flashbang Bra Holsters, Lace Corset Holsters, etc. etc., each in many tasteful colours, all of which which can be pre-gift-wrapped in _A Pink Polka Dot Gift Bag with Sparkly Tissue_. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/177 "2015-01-03T04:41:33Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Maybe she made a stupid mistake with her gun. Maybe she was just an idiot. Maybe?? BTW, did she have her hands in the air? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/178 "2015-01-03T04:43:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I though the argument was that having _more_ weapons make a situation safer? > > Have I been misled? No, having more weapons in the hands of \*responsible \*people makes the situation safer. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/179 "2015-01-03T05:48:00Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I though the argument was that having _more_ weapons make a situation safer? > > Have I been misled? And, you have misunderstood ‘the argument’. More weapons do not make a situation safer any more than less weapons make a situation safer. Use/Need of weapons depends on the situation, not on a generality about which you do not understand. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569/180 "2015-01-03T06:01:34Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > And, you have misunderstood ‘the argument’. More weapons do not make a situation safer any more than less weapons make a situation safer. Many gun rights proponents say more guns make society safer, without qualification. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-this-possible-mother-shot-by-toddler-at-walmart/708569.md?page=10)