# How is Trump not guilty of manslaughter? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 9, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780 "2023-05-09T01:28:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/41 "2023-05-09T17:26:29Z")
Thread title changed for clarity. RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/42 "2023-05-09T17:44:04Z")
I think manslaughter would be tough to convict on. I think dereliction of duty (refusing to send in the NG), incitement to riot, and seditious conspiracy would be more appropriate charges. I’m one of those that does not say his surname out loud nor do I type it except when it can’t be avoided. I just use Donald most of the time or one of many insulting names. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/43 "2023-05-09T17:44:57Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And this time they’re really being asked to vote for their chimp. Even if half of them don’t recognize he’s a chimp. We should be careful what we ask for rhetorically. Careful; you’re maligning chimpanzees; they have a powerful bite and a surprisingly litigious legal team, and definitely do not want to be associated with an orangutan like Donald Trump. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m one of those that does not say his surname out loud nor do I type it except when it can’t be avoided. If you’re going to use an insulting epithet, why not go with the classic Graydon Carter-penned [“short fingered vulgarian”](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/how-donald-trump-became-the-short-fingered-vulgarian) as popularized in _Spy_ magazine. It angers Trump, and the hilarious thing is that he doesn’t even comprehend the thrust of the insult. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/44 "2023-05-09T19:58:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > definitely do not want to be associated with an orangutan like Donald Trump In the pecking order of primates I always consider the Orangutan a superior critter to the chimp. Perhaps not in brains, but certainly in class. But your larger point is well taken. Other than maybe slime molds I think almost any living thing would take umbrage at being linked with the disgraced dude. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/45 "2023-05-09T20:09:19Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Other than maybe slime molds I think almost any living thing would take umbrage at being linked with the disgraced dude. Slime molds are fascinating, and have their own form of intelligence, so they’d probably not appreciate it. Maybe **Treponema pallidum** , the bacteria that causes syphilis, would be okay with being compared to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/46 "2023-05-09T20:15:02Z")
Spirochetes. Always burrowing into where they are unwelcome. And inducing insanity in otherwise normal nervous systems. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. Well done Sir! ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/47 "2023-05-09T20:24:44Z")
I believe he is guilty of that and much more, but that is not the crime he will ever be convicted for. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/48 "2023-05-09T20:27:03Z")
May I say the general direction of the thread is probably quite unlike what y’all expected… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/49 "2023-05-09T20:37:54Z")
Getting back to the main topic… I do believe that Trump is guilty of man’s laughter. Many humans have laughed at that orange clown. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/50 "2023-05-09T21:40:34Z")
Explains the tears in their eyes. Dan ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/51 "2023-05-09T21:46:55Z")
Nah. They have tears in their eyes because they’re _too week_. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/52 "2023-05-09T22:19:47Z")
![](https://media.tenor.com/Hl1Buq3s2_4AAAAd/two-weeks.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/53 "2023-05-09T22:53:56Z")
Actually, I was seriously wondering why, if someone dies committing a crime at another’s behest, the other isn’t somewhat culpable. The thread got derailed by my insensitive wordage in the title. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/54 "2023-05-09T23:28:09Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Actually, I was seriously wondering why, if someone dies committing a crime at another’s behest, the other isn’t somewhat culpable. You’d need evidence that Trump personally told her to do exactly what she did. He certainly inspired the riots with his rhetoric, but it wasn’t a direct command. Consider the difference between two situations… 1. A man says to a friend, “At 2 PM on Thursday, I know that there is a shift change with the security guards at the bank. If you go in right there and rob it, you can be in and out without resistance. Here are some other people I recruited to help you out. I have a hidden place you can meet up at later, here are directions.” 2. A man is giving a speech in front of a crowd of people, talking about how the rich and powerful are corrupt, and the banks are full of money stolen from the community. He insists that it would be justice if people marched to the bank and forced them to give back their ill-gotten gains. In the first scenario, clearly this person is a co-conspirator, and if someone was shot and killed in the course of the robbery, I could see them being charged as an accessory to murder (or manslaughter, or whatever). In the second scenario, while the speaker might have inspired a crime, there was no collusion, no direct planning, nothing. I know that the Trump incident is more complicated of course. For example, he specifically directed people to march on the capitol right at that moment, and he knew that many were armed, and he riled them up intentionally. Also, he failed to do anything to stop it, when he had the power to do so, and allowed it to happen. He certainly bears some culpability in my mind for what happened. But I don’t think he is directly guilty of any specific crimes those people committed. …I am not a lawyer, but I have watched plenty of videos and read quite a bit of literature on the law as I’m fascinated by it. I also learned a lot from The Illustrated Guide to Law. Here is the section talking about accomplice liability. I find it both entertaining, and informative. > **[Conspiracy pg 1](https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=432)** > > The Big Cheese wants someone to commit the perfect heist. You can also skip ahead to the part where they start saying who is considered an accomplice, and who isn’t, and why. > **[Conspiracy pg 19](https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=499)** > > To be liable for a crime as an accomplice, you simply need to help it happen, with the same mens rea required for that crime. What Trump did doesn’t seem to come close to what you’d need to be held legally responsible for what happened to Babbit, or anyone else engaged in physical violence. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/55 "2023-05-09T23:35:17Z")
Okay okay, I’ll scale my dream down to civil suit and put it on the pile. Considering the number ahead of it, it should hit the court in about 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/56 "2023-05-10T01:21:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > He certainly bears some culpability in my mind for what happened. But I don’t think he is directly guilty of any specific crimes those people committed. In the World War I years, the socialist movement was viewed as a serious threat by the United States government, to the extent that they enforced lots of laws relating to sedition. As such, a great deal of “Free Speech” jurisprudence comes from the era (including the famous “you can’t shout fire in a crowded theater”). I say this to say that I believe that Trump _can_ be held responsible for the crimes they committed, in that it would be feasible to say that he incited a riot. As evidence it was a riot, Exhibit A is the death of Ashli Babbitt. But that’s not manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/57 "2023-05-10T01:35:10Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I say this to say that I believe that Trump _can_ be held responsible for the crimes they committed, in that it would be feasible to say that he incited a riot. As evidence it was a riot, Exhibit A is the death of Ashli Babbitt. But that’s not manslaughter. I absolutely agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/58 "2023-05-10T01:35:13Z")
Did the Babbit death happen while trump was hiding out in the White House dining room for those 3 hours? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/59 "2023-05-10T03:09:22Z")
[Here is Wikipedia’s timeline of the traitors’ attack on the Capitol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack). 2:44 p.m. The loser shot. 3:13 p.m. That unfunny joke of a president sent out a tweet asking people to be peaceful. 3:36 p.m., White House press secretary tweets federal forces headed to the Capitol. 4:03 p.m. That unfunny joke of a president goes to the Rose Garden for a video op to call for an end to the violence. Yeah, he’s not even close to innocent here. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780/60 "2023-05-10T03:18:31Z")
So if he would have called them off sooner, she wouldn’t be going through that window. He wanted to see how it would play out, and _she_ found out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/983780.md?page=4)