# How is trump still a viable candidate for president? Really, how? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 12, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949 "2023-05-12T14:28:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/141 "2023-05-20T01:26:15Z")
The idea that people are being told what to think or believe- especially believe- is bullshit. How can someone stop you from believing what you believe? It’s a ridiculous notion. To state it as fact, that it is currently happening, is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/142 "2023-05-20T01:41:31Z")
So if I showed you an example of people being forced to attend DEI lectures as a condition of employment? How about people being forced to sign a personal diversity and inclusion statement as a condition of employment? If I could find examples of that, would you agree that people are having others’ beliefs forced on them? How about tenured professors being attacked and their jobs threatened for expressing their opinions? How about your pension fund forcing ESG investments on you, even if you don’t believe in them? I could go on. You probably don’t see it because you agree with it all and it escapes notice. But if it was religion and you were being forced to take religious classes and sign a statement of your commitment to Christ, I’ll bet you’d have a big, big problem with it. If these are meaningless and don’t change anyone’s opinions, why are we doing it? Kabuki theater? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/143 "2023-05-20T01:43:17Z")
What’s DEI, and whats ESG? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/144 "2023-05-20T01:44:45Z")
DEI = Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. ESG = Environmental and Social Governance. Are you serious that you had never heard those terms? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/145 "2023-05-20T01:46:16Z")
A lecture on diversity? I’ve sat through shittier group get togethers at work. Are _you_ serious? And none of this proves the most ridiculous claim that Democrats are dictating what someone should believe. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/146 "2023-05-20T01:47:33Z")
No, remember he doesn’t personally believe any of that is really happening. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/147 "2023-05-20T01:49:42Z")
And I’ve never worked for a union, all my work 401ks were invested in funds that I could choose a category of. Where the specific dollars went, I had no fucking choice. I had a choice to participate or not. Choose your risk category if you want in. Jeesus the victimhood from the right… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/148 "2023-05-20T02:40:39Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > instead of hearing “your parents and grandparents bought an easier life at a terrible, terrible price, and now the bill is coming due,” people are hearing that social change is being forced upon them > … > It is neither in their habit nor their interest to do the deeper thinking to ascertain why > … > > What Trump does is tell people, “It really IS that simple.” This is a lie, but it’s a lie they desperately want to believe, because then even if Trump is wrong about every specific thing, he validates what THEY know to be true. Right on – that is why Trump is still a viable candidate. He’s the one who reaffirms their “reality”, their own lived experience narrative, to borrow some terms from the hated multiculturalists. We could reformat that prase I last quoted from **Dr.Drake** with some punctuation as: _what THEY “know” to be true._ With **scare quotes** , because rather than knowledge it’s a form of Faith, it’s something they have become fundamentally convinced of as what explains the world around them, with the generous assist of a lot of motivated propaganda. Then, any attempt at getting them to rethink or reconsider “the way we’ve always done it”, can be portrayed by the reactionary opportunist politicians as an existential threat. That a changed world means a world _they_ won’t fit in. That they are not just being expected to tolerate the changes or differences, but to celebrate them, and to shut up about not liking it. This has been preached to them for 60 years, the result is a **cultivated** fragility, reactive brittleness instead of adaptive flexibility. Easy harvest for a Trump type. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/149 "2023-05-20T02:52:20Z")
Both the Democrats and Republicans include people with a wide variety of views. There are corporate Democrats like Biden with traditional views regarding businesses and institutions. His views differ substantially from those espoused by Sanders and many younger Democrats. Democrats might disagree, even with each other, on what speech is offensive, how immigration should be handled, the best way to help those who have faced historical discrimination or address climate change, how to provide services, or the balance between (for example) respecting the dignity of addicts and homeless yet wanting people to stay in treatment programs and feel safe within their communities. People with opinions on these matters vary in their tolerance of other views. All of them are difficult topics where reasonable people might disagree. Of course people “believe what they believe”. But this is influenced and changed by many things - education, peers, values, the zeitgeist, history, social and traditional media, sociocultural factors, economic factors, geography, technology and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/150 "2023-05-20T08:20:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Another faction are the people who have come to despise Democrats after years of being called ‘deplorable’, dumb, redneck, racist, sexist, homophobe, etc. I can’t imagine why… > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I understand their grievances. I don’t agree with it, but I know the litany they tell: > > "I go to work, and I have to sit through a session on DEI and we have Pride flags in the office. I am forced to participate. > “I get sick of it all, so I just want to sit down and have a beer and watch the game. Except the players are wearing Pride colors, and there’s a transgender person on my beer can.” I don’t know . . . maybe it could be all that and more, but I’m sure _you_ know _I’m_ wrong. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/151 "2023-05-20T10:21:52Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@solost](#): > > > > I’ve made the argument to trumpists I have talked to in real life, when I think they may more amenable to debate than some,“what, of the things you wanted him to accomplish, did he actually accomplish, really?” This list you provided is great; some of it I’m aware of, some I may have been more aware of and forgotten. > > Supreme Court picks? That is a trump accomplishment that trumpists can call on. It’s a simple fact, without even needing any trumpy exaggerations applied. But it took a huge assist from McConnell, who blocked Obama from appointing Merrick Garland, and them trump just followed Federalist Society recommendations. Nothing any ordinary R Pres couldn’t have accomplished— it didn’t take a philosopher king like trump to make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/152 "2023-05-20T10:52:12Z")
> [@solost](#): > > That is a trump accomplishment that trumpists can call on. It’s a simple fact, without even needing any trumpy exaggerations applied. > > But it took a huge assist from McConnell, who blocked Obama from appointing Merrick Garland, and them trump just followed Federalist Society recommendations. Nothing any ordinary R Pres couldn’t have accomplished— it didn’t take a philosopher king like trump to make it happen But there are two questions in play, when you’re discussing why folks would support Trump: why do you support Trump _instead of the Democratic candidate,_ and why do you support Trump _instead of some other Republican candidate?_ I’d figure that his willingness to just follow those recommendations could be an answer to the first question — and you can, if you’re so inclined, frame that in ‘useful idiot’ terms — and that, starting from there, one could plausibly field the second question by debating whether Trump has better odds of winning against a Democratic candidate than any ordinary Republican candidate would in a straight matchup (as he gets backed by all of the Trump supporters, plus any Republican-leaning voters who can bring themselves to vote for him) or by arguing that it wouldn’t _be_ a straight matchup (as it’d be unified support for the D candidate, versus an ordinary R that Trump supporters can be told to turn their backs on). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/153 "2023-05-20T12:36:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’d figure that his willingness to just follow those recommendations could be an answer to the first question — and you can, if you’re so inclined, frame that in ‘useful idiot’ terms It’ a darn good bet that most of the R Establishment and their super-donors figured this angle real early as Trump began to be a real contender for the 2016 nomination. They all _grossly_ misunderestimated quite how resistant he would be to them pulling on the reins. But in the places where, like the SCOTUS appointees, they could present him with their choices that he was incuriously indifferent to, they’d still get his sig on their agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/154 "2023-05-20T16:25:39Z")
Re: DEI training I was listening on the radio to a guy saying that he was tired of anti-woke being forced down his throat. When asked about a specific example though, he talked about a training he’d been forced to attend, _more than 20 years ago_, that was about not harassing coworkers. It’s so bizarre how strongly some people can feel this sense of persecution based on not very much at all. I started a new job about 2 months ago and I indeed have had to do a training about not discriminating on the basis of race, gender or sexual orientation. But I’ve also had to do about a dozen other non-job specific trainings, regarding anti-competitive practices, company IP, flagging product safety issues etc etc. It’s so strange to me that someone would feel so put upon just because of one of these trainings, especially when it is just saying something as uncontroversial as “treat people fairly”. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/155 "2023-05-20T16:34:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > anti-woke I think you meant “woke”. > [@Mijin](#): > > It’s so strange to me that someone would feel so put upon just because of one of these trainings, especially when it is just saying something as uncontroversial as “treat people fairly”. Yeah, that’s the one thing that really seems rub some people the wrong way and get under their skin. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/156 "2023-05-20T16:37:49Z")
True story: Once when I was on the afternoon shift I shared a desk with a guy who worked the first shift. On the desk was an industrial training manual titled “Common Decency”, and I was astounded that someone merited training in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/157 "2023-05-20T16:40:47Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I was listening on the radio to a guy saying that he was tired of anti-woke being forced down his throat. When asked about a specific example though, he talked about a training he’d been forced to attend, _more than 20 years ago_, that was about not harassing coworkers. Anti-woke training? Sound more like wokeness training. But I get your point. But yeah, most of the complaints (ref @Sam_Stone’s _excellent_ list of stuff he doesn’t agree with) aren’t that the offense is actually happening to the complainer. It’s that they’ve listened to e.g. Fox News tell them over and over _and over_ that it’s happening “everywhere” to “everyone”. So soon enough the complainer _feels_ (not thinks) it’s actually happening to them. It’s Munchausen’s Outrage by proxy. > [@Mijin](#): > > It’s so strange to me that someone would feel so put upon just because of one of these trainings, especially when it is just saying something as uncontroversial as “treat people fairly”. I know you know this, but the real problem is deeper-seated. The objectionable part of the message isn’t “treat people fairly”. It’s that “Those Others are actually people” and are therefore deserving of fair treatment. That’s the thing that sticks in racist / sexist / religionist craws: that Others might actually equally be people just like them. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/158 "2023-05-20T16:41:20Z")
I could see it being interpreted as an insult if it were something someone wouldn’t do in the first place, although that’s probably not the case here. If you were required to attend a seminar called “Why you shouldn’t lick food off the floor with your tongue,” you might be either annoyed at someone else’s nonsensical behavior sentencing you to have to endure this mindless training, or even insulted at the insinuation that you would do such a thing if not instructed not to. But yeah, that may not necessarily be the case here. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/159 "2023-05-20T17:27:45Z")
It is interesting to me that the right touts themselves as the side of morality and ethics. But yeah, for some reason they seem to have a problem without treating your neighbor kindly. Probably because of the Bible. I remember distinctly one of the parables being about turning a blind eye to those who are suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949/160 "2023-05-20T18:16:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Anti-woke training? Sound more like wokeness training. But I get your point. Sorry yes, I meant woke. That is to say, the people complaining call it woke, but it was just standard diversity and ethics training. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-is-trump-still-a-viable-candidate-for-president-really-how/983949.md?page=9)