# How Jon Stewart Turned Lies into Comedy... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769 "2015-02-16T00:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/21 "2015-02-16T15:39:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Smith seems fixated on how Stewart appeals to them uncritical College Students, who aren’t equipped with the analytical skills to detect his errors: Everything else aside, there’s more than a little truth in this. I’ve lost track of the number of popular campus speakers who had audience after audience goshwallowing agog at their slick, polished bullshit. (Wilson Brian Key stands out as a poster boy.) It’s fertile ground to sow important-sounding nonsense and make yourself into a guru/genius/spokesman/celeb. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/22 "2015-02-16T16:32:14Z")
Other than your keen observational skills, have we any other reason to believe that? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/23 "2015-02-16T16:51:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I am not familiar with the _Daily Show_ and don’t know what Jon Stewart did or did not do. > > That said, the broader point about comics making real points is a valid one, and it also applies to other types of fiction (e.g. movies like _Selma_). The point is that they tend to bolster their positions by saying things that are not actually true. They fall back on the “it’s only humor/fiction” line when pressed on it, but the fact is they are expecting their audience to take what they say seriously at some level - certainly as to their overall point - and much of that audience will not be able to differenciate between what’s true and what’s fiction/humor, and the false parts of their presentation are a part of what influences their audience about real issues. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/24 "2015-02-16T16:59:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Other than your keen observational skills, have we any other reason to believe that? I’m hardly the only keen observer who’s noticed that college students, especially first- and second-year, can be made to swallow almost anything. Especially if it’s dressed up as The Real Truth THEY Won’t Tell You. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/25 "2015-02-16T18:23:54Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m hardly the only keen observer who’s noticed that college students, especially first- and second-year, can be made to swallow almost anything. Especially if it’s dressed up as The Real Truth THEY Won’t Tell You. Whole lotta truth right there! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/26 "2015-02-16T18:25:05Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m hardly the only keen observer who’s noticed that college students, especially first- and second-year, can be made to swallow almost anything. Ha! I wis- Oh, you meant intellectually, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/27 "2015-02-16T18:25:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I am not familiar with the _Daily Show_ and don’t know what Jon Stewart did or did not do. You’ve really missed something then. His best stuff is taking an in context quote of Fox News attacking someone or something, and then finding old video of them taking the exact opposite position when the subject is one of their allies. He has done the same thing to liberals, but he loves doing it to Fox News. This stuff has to take dozens of man hours to find and put together, and it is really fun to watch. And it is far more pointed than any other news parody has ever been. SNL has always been lighthearted and avoiding major issues in favor of a joke. TDS usually is about how the real news is very much a curated experience with a strong point of view. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/28 "2015-02-16T18:30:52Z")
> [@DagNation](#): > > I think the funny liberals are well balanced by the fear mongers on the right - like Rush. But why is there almost nobody **funny** on the right? _Mallard Fillmore_ is not funny . . . no RW editorial cartoonist I’ve ever seen is funny . . . Dennis Miller is not funny . . . the “Christian comedians” are not funny . . . not even the great P.J. O’Rourke has been **very** funny since his _National Lampoon_ days . . . there was _The Half Hour News Hour,_ a Fox effort at its own counterpart to _TDS_ but it didn’t last long . . . Why is that?! ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/29 "2015-02-16T18:36:50Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Whole lotta truth right there! 😃 For one thing, I have participated in more than one song-and-dance session of presenting a Real, Genuine Psychic to a college crowd, who were almost universally goshwoggled and certain what they’d seen was real. In that same period, I participated in - as in, posing as the expert - sessions where a class was presented with Authentic Horoscopes drawn up from their vital stats. Again, almost total uncritical belief. There were those who went away still believing after it had been explained as a trick and a deception. (This was the same era that James Randi was doing this on a more widespread scale; I was connected to some Randi FOAFs who were repeating his experiments and explorations, and well, I LOOKED like a psychic or astrologer.) The bizarre natterings of Key were also central to my interests throughout the era he was wowing young guppies with the secrets of SEX printed on Ritz crackers and deaths-heads in every alcohol ad. There are a lot of very smart people in early college years. But a whole helluva lotta them, perhaps even more so in this era of only extreme grinds making it into the better colleges, can be thoroughly deceived by the most utter nonsense, if it’s presented authoritatively and ‘with proof’ and as something Only Real Adults Can Be Told. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/30 "2015-02-16T18:39:11Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > You’ve really missed something then. His best stuff is taking an in context quote of Fox News attacking someone or something, and then finding old video of them taking the exact opposite position when the subject is one of their allies. He has done the same thing to liberals, but he loves doing it to Fox News. This stuff has to take dozens of man hours to find and put together, and it is really fun to watch. I would probably find that interesting. Although I should note that many liberals on this board have expressed vehement opposition to this very type of “hypocrisy-hunting”, so you would think they would have disliked it. OTOH, I tend to think people’s positions on hypocrisy-hunting is itself correlated with whose hypocrisy is being hunted, so there’s that. 🙂 On a semi-related note, there’s an article on the 538 website about [The Overhyped Reaction To Jon Stewart Leaving ‘The Daily Show’](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-overhyped-reaction-to-jon-stewart-leaving/), in which his basic point is: > [@](#): > > “The Daily Show” always had limited appeal; it just happens that the appeal included the New York media elite. > > Stewart largely appeals to wealthy and well-educated liberals — a small slice of the overall news audience. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But why is there almost nobody **funny** on the right? _Mallard Fillmore_ is not funny . . . no RW editorial cartoonist I’ve ever seen is funny . . . Dennis Miller is not funny . . . the “Christian comedians” are not funny . . . not even the great P.J. O’Rourke has been **very** funny since his _National Lampoon_ days . . . there was _The Half Hour News Hour,_ a Fox effort at its own counterpart to _TDS_ but it didn’t last long . . . Why is that?! A couple of observations: [ol] [li]The entertainment business in general skews left, for a variety of reasons, and[/li][li]People tend to find humor which is in line with their general and ideological symphathies to be funnier than that which opposes it.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/31 "2015-02-16T19:03:06Z")
Well, then, there’s a vast market out there, untapped. Hordes of surly, constipated tighty-rightys craving the release of a good joke. P.J. O’Rourke has dropped a few good lines over about twenty years, when he’s not too busy telling us how he used to be a pot smoking hippy but wised up and became an alcoholic. But even a week of tepid and half-assed _Daily Show_ has more yuks. Why? The blessings of a just and loving Goddess, good a reason as any. Not everything makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/32 "2015-02-16T19:29:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I would probably find that interesting. Although I should note that many liberals on this board have expressed vehement opposition to this very type of “hypocrisy-hunting”, so you would think they would have disliked it. OTOH, I tend to think people’s positions on hypocrisy-hunting is itself correlated with whose hypocrisy is being hunted, so there’s that. 🙂 > > On a semi-related note, there’s an article on the 538 website about [The Overhyped Reaction To Jon Stewart Leaving ‘The Daily Show’](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-overhyped-reaction-to-jon-stewart-leaving/), in which his basic point is:A couple of observations: > [ol] > [li]The entertainment business in general skews left, for a variety of reasons, and[/li][li]People tend to find humor which is in line with their general and ideological symphathies to be funnier than that which opposes it.[/li][/ol] It’s more than just hypocrisy hunting, which if done, should be done well. I’m not opposed to pointing out hypocrisy, but let’s make it funny or about policy and do the research, which TDS usually does. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But why is there almost nobody **funny** on the right? _Mallard Fillmore_ is not funny . . . no RW editorial cartoonist I’ve ever seen is funny . . . Dennis Miller is not funny . . . the “Christian comedians” are not funny . . . not even the great P.J. O’Rourke has been **very** funny since his _National Lampoon_ days . . . there was _The Half Hour News Hour,_ a Fox effort at its own counterpart to _TDS_ but it didn’t last long . . . Why is that?! The reason American right wing humor is not funny to Americans is that a basic American value is that you don’t mock the hungry, poor, sick and defeated. That isn’t funny to Americans (I can’t imagine its funny to anyone, but hey, Dennis Miller tries) and its actually sickening. Mocking the rich and powerful and celebrities who are successful doesn’t leave one feeling like needing a radioactive shower. Notice how when Brittany Spears a few years back was actually going a bit too crazy (and Lindsay Lohan still) the amount of humor at their expense decreases to almost nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/33 "2015-02-16T19:31:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But why is there almost nobody **funny** on the right? _Mallard Fillmore_ is not funny . . . no RW editorial cartoonist I’ve ever seen is funny . . . Dennis Miller is not funny . . . the “Christian comedians” are not funny . . . not even the great P.J. O’Rourke has been **very** funny since his _National Lampoon_ days . . . there was _The Half Hour News Hour,_ a Fox effort at its own counterpart to _TDS_ but it didn’t last long . . . Why is that?! I think it’s because by and large, the conservative world view is the opposite of what most folks find funny. They tend to come down on the side of CEO’s, bankers, and other “makers” and are fine with all those “takers” being kept down. If the little guy finds a way to stick it to a huge, faceless corporation in a clever way it’s funny. If a huge, faceless corporation finds a way to stick it to the little guy in a clever way, it’s being a bully. The only reason Mallard Fillmore has ever seen the light of day is because he balances out Doonesbury and some of the more liberal strips, and papers feel they must provide balance. Mallard ought to be kissing Doonesbury’s short and curlys every day. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/34 "2015-02-16T19:32:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I would probably find that interesting. Although I should note that many liberals on this board have expressed vehement opposition to this very type of “hypocrisy-hunting”, so you would think they would have disliked it. OTOH, I tend to think people’s positions on hypocrisy-hunting is itself correlated with whose hypocrisy is being hunted, so there’s that. 🙂 Have an example? TDS also shows this kind of thing for liberals - it is just not as frequent. > [@](#): > > On a semi-related note, there’s an article on the 538 website about [The Overhyped Reaction To Jon Stewart Leaving ‘The Daily Show’](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-overhyped-reaction-to-jon-stewart-leaving/), in which his basic point is: Notice he said nothing about ratings? From the [WSJ](http://www.wsj.com/articles/jon-stewart-to-leave-daily-show-later-this-year-1423614111) > [@](#): > > However, the arrival of Jimmy Fallon at the “Tonight” show on NBC has upset this steady state of affairs of late. While last season, “The Daily Show” was the clear winner among all viewers in the 18-34 demographic with 629,000 viewers by this point in the season, this year it has seen that demographic drop off by 22% so far this season, while Mr. Fallon’s “Tonight” has pulled ahead—up 36%—to 519,000 viewers in that demographic. NBC, as a broadcast network rather than a cable network, has always drawn a bigger audience of total viewers, averaging nearly 4 million so far this season, according to Nielsen. So up until recently TDS was #1 in this important demographic. As for your cite, well Stewart himself said that it sounded like he died. But Viacom is very worried, which means something. And advertisers just hate getting viewers with money, I suppose. And when someone says a show is not important because more people don’t watch it than do (which is true for just about every show except the Super Bowl) it proves he is a cretin. > [@](#): > > A couple of observations: > [ol] > [li]The entertainment business in general skews left, for a variety of reasons, and[/li][li]People tend to find humor which is in line with their general and ideological symphathies to be funnier than that which opposes it.[/li][/ol] But as has been noted, the Fox News attempt at comedy has bombed. Comedy must be able to go where it goes no matter what. Conservatives seem to have a problem with this. Mallard Fillmore found nothing funny in 8 years of George Bush - except when Bush proposed some reasonable immigration policy, that is. This is recent - when I read National Review in the '60s and '70s it was frequently funny. PJs first few books were funny also. So I can recognize conservative humor when I see it - I just don’t see any these days. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/35 "2015-02-16T20:14:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But why is there almost nobody **funny** on the right? _Mallard Fillmore_ is not funny . . . no RW editorial cartoonist I’ve ever seen is funny . . . Dennis Miller is not funny . . . the “Christian comedians” are not funny . . . not even the great P.J. O’Rourke has been **very** funny since his _National Lampoon_ days . . . there was _The Half Hour News Hour,_ a Fox effort at its own counterpart to _TDS_ but it didn’t last long . . . Why is that?! It’s because allowing children to stay on their parent’s health insurance until they’re 26 could bring about the end of the republic. And that sort of thing is no laughing matter. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/36 "2015-02-16T20:17:07Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The reason American right wing humor is not funny to Americans is that a basic American value is that you don’t mock the hungry, poor, sick and defeated. That isn’t funny to Americans (I can’t imagine its funny to anyone, but hey, Dennis Miller tries) and its actually sickening. Mocking the rich and powerful and celebrities who are successful doesn’t leave one feeling like needing a radioactive shower. Notice how when Brittany Spears a few years back was actually going a bit too crazy (and Lindsay Lohan still) the amount of humor at their expense decreases to almost nothing. How do you think Conservative humor is tied to mocking the hungry, poor, sick and defeated? Because only liberals are hungry, poor, sick and defeated? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/37 "2015-02-16T20:43:08Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > How do you think Conservative humor is tied to mocking the hungry, poor, sick and defeated? Because only liberals are hungry, poor, sick and defeated? Good question. It’s really odd to think that only Democrats are poor and all Conservatives are caricatures like the Monopoly monocle guy or Scrooge McDuck. If you only let the richest zip codes in the country vote, you know that Democrats would will handily, right? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/38 "2015-02-16T20:50:06Z")
For an example of humor with a conservative bent, I submit to you the first ten or so years of the Simpsons. You know, back when the show was funny. There was conservative jokes in every episode. The Daily show itself would work just fine as a conservative show. All you’d have to do it switch the content up a bit. Instead of lampooning Democrats 25% of the time and Conservatives 75% of the time you just do the opposite. Liberals don’t have any sort of monopoly on funny. Some conservatives are humorless, such as Sean Hannity. Some conservatives are funny, such as Dennis Miller. Some conservatives are shrill and funny, such as Ann Coulter. Some are charismatic and funny, such as Bill O’Reilly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/39 "2015-02-16T21:14:07Z")
[quote=“Fotheringay-Phipps, post:30, topic:712769”] A couple of observations: [ol] [li]The entertainment business in general skews left, for a variety of reasons . . [/ol][/li][/quote] [Not so much](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Hollywood_values#Today) [as you might think](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Liberal_media), actually. [quote=“Fotheringay-Phipps, post:30, topic:712769”] [ol][li]People tend to find humor which is in line with their general and ideological symphathies to be funnier than that which opposes it.[/ol][/li][/QUOTE] So? What RW humor is out there that you think liberals are underappreciating but conservatives laugh at? Anything I mentioned? Anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/40 "2015-02-16T21:15:21Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > How do you think Conservative humor is tied to mocking the hungry, poor, sick and defeated? Because only liberals are hungry, poor, sick and defeated? Because only liberals don’t use the hungry, poor, sick, and defeated as a punching bag. It’s a fundamental difference in philosophy - on the right, if you’re down, it’s _your_ fault, and nobody owes you any help until you pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Assuming you have them. On the left, if you’re down, it’s not _necessarily_ your fault; society has a part to play as well. This shows in what they consider comedic, or relevant. > [@Debaser](#): > > Liberals don’t have any sort of monopoly on funny. Actually, this is precisely what the ratings show. > [@](#): > > Some conservatives are shrill and funny, such as Ann Coulter. That’s an odd way of writing “insane and depressing”. > [@](#): > > Some are charismatic and funny, such as Bill O’Reilly. That’s an odd way of writing “ugly and stupid”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769.md?page=3)