# How Jon Stewart Turned Lies into Comedy... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769 "2015-02-16T00:37:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/61 "2015-02-17T03:40:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Libertarian humor, now, is a different thing . . . As Stone and Parker of \*South Park \* say, “We hate conservatives, but we really, really hate liberals.” There is one consistent political message – maybe true, maybe false, but at any rate consistent – running through a lot of their material: Too many people take politics too seriously. And they always manage to make it funny. I think that what Stone and Parker really hate are the finger-waggers, joy-killers, fear-mongers, bandwagon-jumpers, pearl-clutchers, nosy-parkers, and general professional-bloviators that make up not only politics, but end up pushing every single “conversation” on any social issue. Oh, and people who’ve got giant metaphorical sticks up their butt. Them too. They do make their stuff funny, and I spend a lot of time laughing myself silly at South Park. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/62 "2015-02-17T03:41:54Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > I’m not sure the discussion was heretofore limited to political humor. And putting that limitation on it does make things tricky, because it’s hard to be amused by something that you philosophically disagree with. Perhaps. But it’s not as though there’s much in the way of successful conservative political humor shows/movies to point to as well. I mean, even if you disagreed with Stewart & Colbert’s politics, you had to admit that the shows drew an audience. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/63 "2015-02-17T03:47:33Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Some conservatives are shrill and funny, such as Ann Coulter. Some are charismatic and funny, such as Bill O’Reilly. Except that they aren’t being funny on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/64 "2015-02-17T03:51:17Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > I think that what Stone and Parker really hate are the finger-waggers, joy-killers, fear-mongers, bandwagon-jumpers, pearl-clutchers, nosy-parkers, and general professional-bloviators that make up not only politics, but end up pushing every single “conversation” on any social issue. > > Oh, and people who’ve got giant metaphorical sticks up their butt. Them too. Don’t forget the bluenoses, prodnoses, telltales and twitch-curtains. And Kyle’s Mom. What a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/65 "2015-02-17T06:07:18Z")
I’m still waiting for Sitnam to pick his conservative comedian who does political stuff so that I can go to youtube and find out if his/her political schtick is funny. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/66 "2015-02-17T09:55:01Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Except that they aren’t being funny on purpose. I actually think Ann Coulter is deliberately trying to be funny. That’s how I’ve always taken her schtick. I disagree with her in just about every way, but a lot what she says is clearly for the purposes of trolling. Which is its own sort of ‘point and laugh’ comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/67 "2015-02-17T14:14:28Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That said, the broader point about comics making real points is a valid one, and it also applies to other types of fiction (e.g. movies like _Selma_). The point is that they tend to bolster their positions by saying things that are not actually true. Amused by the choice of _Selma_ as an example. Unlike the perversions of nearly every major film about history, including a couple currently in theaters, the most _Selma_ can be accused of is altering timelines a little or speculating based on circumstantial evidence about LBJ. So I wonder why you picked it. Actually, I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/68 "2015-02-17T14:22:17Z")
You’ve seriously misrepresented the historical issues with _Selma_. And I don’t wonder much why you did it either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/69 "2015-02-17T14:25:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’ve seriously misrepresented the historical issues with _Selma_. Please be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/70 "2015-02-17T14:27:03Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You’ve seriously misrepresented the historical issues with _Selma_. > > And I don’t wonder much why you did it either. Yeah, I thought you had nothing. But you should consider seeing the movie, or reading some books. You might learn something. Taylor Branch’s trilogy is great! ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/71 "2015-02-17T14:28:42Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Except that they aren’t being funny on purpose. Yes. They are. It’s odd to be so politically polarized that you can’t see this. Have you ever seen Bill O’Reilly on with Stewart? He’s definitely in on the joke, and is a funny guy. Coulter includes intentionally funny parts in every column she writes. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/72 "2015-02-17T14:29:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Please be more specific. Not sure if you’ve paid attention to the criticism of that film, from historians and people with actual knowledge of the events described. You can start here: [Selma (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_(film)#Controversies_regarding_historical_accuracy) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/73 "2015-02-17T14:35:14Z")
Which of the criticisms launched by associates of Johnson do you think is both historically correct and a correct characterization of the film? Be specific. I’m guessing you haven’t even seen the film. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/74 "2015-02-17T14:40:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Libertarian humor, now, is a different thing… Yes, usually self-referential. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Too many people take politics too seriously. Well, I’d agree, and I’d love to see precise statements/definitions/discussions/analyses of fine shades of political partisanship set aside as the masking and deflection they usually are, when it comes to issues of serious public policy. But it’s practically to the point where you can’t say “Hey, how bout them [insert pro sports team here]” or “Say, this is some weather we’re having” without someone turning it into a McCarthyesque inquisition/diatribe. I am not sure throwing gobs of a kind of political BS you agree with at political BS you don’t agree with constitutes sharp satire. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/75 "2015-02-17T14:44:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Which of the criticisms launched by associates of Johnson do you think is both historically correct and a correct characterization of the film? Be specific. > > I’m guessing you haven’t even seen the film. How about you answer this? Is there any legitimate reason for you to characterize it as criticism from “associates of Johnson” when the link I provided also showed essentially the same criticism from an associate of King? I’m guessing I know the answer to this too. (See also: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/selma-sets-off-a-controversy-amid-oscar-buzz/2014/12/31/7551108e-9100-11e4-ba53-a477d66580ed\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/selma-sets-off-a-controversy-amid-oscar-buzz/2014/12/31/7551108e-9100-11e4-ba53-a477d66580ed_story.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/76 "2015-02-17T14:49:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > How about you answer this? > > Is there any legitimate reason for you to characterize it as criticism from “associates of Johnson” when the link I provided also showed essentially the same criticism from an associate of King? Because his associates were the only ones cited in your link who had any specific criticisms. Young says “the two were always mutually respectful, and King respected Johnson’s political problems.” King is more dismissed of Johnson’s political problems in the film than in reality, perhaps. But we don’t have to play games. The truth is all you know about this is what you’ve read in the conservative media. You’re scrambling now to try to support your views because you were talking out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/77 "2015-02-17T14:49:38Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes. They are. In a narrow, pedantic sense, yes, they occasionally deliberately make statements intended to be humorous. But that’s different from presenting themselves as comics who comment on the day’s relevant topics. I find it hard to believe you don’t know the difference between a political commentator who has an occasionally visible sense of humor and a professional comic who delves into political commentary. Fuck that. I’ll grant you the intelligence to know the difference and further claim you are making some bizarre narrowly technical statement to score imaginary debate points. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/78 "2015-02-17T15:02:45Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Because his associates were the only ones cited in your link who had any specific criticisms. Young says “the two were always mutually respectful, and King respected Johnson’s political problems.” King is more dismissed of Johnson’s political problems in the film than in reality, perhaps. There’s no fundamental difference between “specific criticisms” and ordinary criticisms. Point is that Young - an associate of King - supported the claim that Johnson’s relationship with King and the civil rights movement was different than the depiction in the film. Which is the entire point. But it serves your ends to pretend that all criticism of the film’s accuracy is coming from “associates of Johnson”. Understood. > [@](#): > > But we don’t have to play games. The truth is all you know about this is what you’ve read in the conservative media. You’re scrambling now to try to support your views because you were talking out of your ass. The truth is that I don’t recall reading anything in “conservative media”, whatever that is (though I can’t guarentee that I haven’t seen a linked article along the way). I would guess your comment is a projection based on your own MO. Here’s an [article from the “conservative media”](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/01/movies/depiction-of-lyndon-b-johnson-in-selma-raises-hackles.html?_r=1) about the matter, including: > [@NY Times](#): > > The criticism of the film’s depiction of the president has come not just from Johnson loyalists, but from some historians who said they admired other aspects of the film. > > “Everybody has to take license in movies like this, and it can be hard for nit-pickers like me to suspend nit-picking,” Diane McWhorter, the author of “Carry Me Home: Birmingham, Alabama: The Climactic Battle of the Civil Rights Revolution,” said in an interview. > > “But with the portrayal of L.B.J.,” she continued, “I kept thinking, ‘Not only is this not true, it’s the opposite of the truth.’ ” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/79 "2015-02-17T15:05:15Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But that’s different from presenting themselves as comics who comment on the day’s relevant topics. Who said they did that? > [@](#): > > I find it hard to believe you don’t know the difference between a political commentator who has an occasionally visible sense of humor and a professional comic who delves into political commentary. That’s nice. It’s a given, since I didn’t say anything of the sort. I think you’re projecting. Or something. I made a simple statement that Liberals don’t have a monopoly on humor since while there are some unfunny conservatives there are plenty of conservatives that do have a sense of humor. I’m not saying they are professional comedians or anything. But they are professional entertainers, and humor is a part of what they do. Clear? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769/80 "2015-02-17T15:07:13Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There’s no fundamental difference between “specific criticisms” and ordinary criticisms. Point is that Young - an associate of King - supported the claim that Johnson’s relationship with King and the civil rights movement was different than the depiction in the film. Which is the entire point. > > But it serves your ends to pretend that all criticism of the film’s accuracy is coming from “associates of Johnson”. Understood. No, you’ve been asked a half-dozen times to be specific. And the only specific (i.e., rebuttable) criticisms you offered came from Johnson’s associates, which is why I identified them as such. And no, the whole point wasn’t that the film may have had any historical inaccuracy. The point was that you chose a film with very little inaccuracy as your example of “lies,” when there are many more obvious examples, including examples currently in theaters. Why did you choose this one? I suspect you will continue to dance and refuse to endorse any specific criticism because, again, you’re talking out of your ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-jon-stewart-turned-lies-into-comedy/712769.md?page=5)