# How legal are concert bootlegs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 29, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979 "2008-11-29T22:19:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crazy\_janey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@crazy\_janey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazy_janey)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/1 "2008-11-29T22:19:46Z")
Hi! I’m a newbie here (although I have been reading the Straight Dope column for years) and I have a question. I’ve recently “discovered” the world of bootleg concert recordings, and I’m curious about the legalities of such. How legal is it to make/ distribute/ posess these? Does it matter if they are sold or just traded? I’ve seen things in record stores marked “Import” that I know are bootlegs. To be clear, by “bootlegs” I mean “Recordings of Audience Origin”, not illegal copies of official releases. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/2 "2008-11-29T23:32:19Z")
Some bands allow bootleg recordings of their concerts, but none that I know of will allow anybody to sell the recordings. The Grateful Dead allowed people to record their concerts and even had a section set aside up front for tapers. If you wanted a copy of someone’s recording, you give them a blank cassette and they record it for you and give it back. Sometimes people trade. But if any money changes hands, their lawyers get busy. Most bands do not allow recording or trading. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/3 "2008-11-30T00:37:54Z")
Most concert bootlegs are not authorized, but that doesn’t stop a brisk international trade in them. I have tons of bootlegs and I bought most from regular stores both abroad and in the United States. I think most labels have accepted that it’s pretty hard to stamp out this market and don’t try very hard. After all, if I like a band enough to listen to a less-than-perfect recording of a concert, it’s a safe bet that I already own every CD that is available for legal purchase. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/4 "2008-11-30T01:48:32Z")
Have you checked out the [Live Music Archive](http://www.archive.org/details/etree) at [Archive.org](http://Archive.org) yet? All their music is from [trade-friendly](http://wiki.etree.org/index.php?page=TradeFriendly) bands, so they’re legal for you to download for personal use. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/5 "2008-11-30T19:03:07Z")
Unless the artists involved allow for the recording, it’s a copyright violation. The Grateful Dead and the Dave Matthews Band do allow recordings and distribution of concerts, as to others at the Live Music Archive **ZenBeam** mentions. In general, though, the bootleg recordings are copyright violations in a variety of ways (the musicians and the songwriters – if it’s a cover song – all have rights here). But it’s up to the people holding copyright to sue for violations, so it’s sometimes not worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/6 "2008-12-01T00:51:31Z")
[This one’s](http://steeleye.freeservers.com/disco61.htm) legal. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/7 "2008-12-01T00:59:26Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Most concert bootlegs are not authorized, but that doesn’t stop a brisk international trade in them. I have tons of bootlegs and I bought most from regular stores both abroad and in the United States. I think most labels have accepted that it’s pretty hard to stamp out this market and don’t try very hard. After all, if I like a band enough to listen to a less-than-perfect recording of a concert, it’s a safe bet that I already own every CD that is available for legal purchase. Frank Zappa fought this like a rabid weasel, and eventually gained legal control of a bunch of illicit bootlegs, which he then released on his own label. The man recorded very nearly every live performance he gave from 1967 onward, and he (rightly) felt it was theft and disrespectful for others to profit from his life’s work. OTOH, Phish let fans record their shows and trade them around, as long as they didn’t sell them for profit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/8 "2008-12-01T02:51:23Z")
Many bootlegs are made in Italy, which has [or had] a legal provision for bootlegs, provided royalties are paid. I don’t know if the letter of the law re. royalties was ever effectively enforced there, but given that it’s Italy and much of their economy is grey-market or black-market, nothing would surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/9 "2008-12-01T03:50:29Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Have you checked out the [Live Music Archive](http://www.archive.org/details/etree) at [Archive.org](http://Archive.org) yet? That’s amazing - thanks! And daunting. Anything you recommend in particular? ---
**Author:** ![crazy\_janey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@crazy\_janey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazy_janey)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/10 "2008-12-01T06:49:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Frank Zappa fought this like a rabid weasel, and eventually gained legal control of a bunch of illicit bootlegs, which he then released on his own label. The man recorded very nearly every live performance he gave from 1967 onward, and he (rightly) felt it was theft and disrespectful for others to profit from his life’s work. > > OTOH, Phish let fans record their shows and trade them around, as long as they didn’t sell them for profit. I heard about Zappa- I think it was called, “Beat the Boots”- Priceless! 🆒 Thanks for the answers so far! ---
**Author:** ![crazy\_janey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@crazy\_janey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazy_janey)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-legal-are-concert-bootlegs/474979/11 "2008-12-01T06:59:41Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Unless the artists involved allow for the recording, it’s a copyright violation. The Grateful Dead and the Dave Matthews Band do allow recordings and distribution of concerts, as to others at the Live Music Archive **ZenBeam** mentions. > > In general, though, the bootleg recordings are copyright violations in a variety of ways (the musicians and the songwriters – if it’s a cover song – all have rights here). But it’s up to the people holding copyright to sue for violations, so it’s sometimes not worth the effort. I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the person who _makes_ the recording holds the copyright; thus the taper holds it. In the case of official releases, this belongs to the record company. Thus, is a concert bootleg really violating a copyright if the show is not “officially” released? Royalties, I know, are another matter. I do believe I have read that some bootleggers (Italy, probably) have gotten around laws by actually paying token royalties to the songwriters.