I was driving a 1990s big Bronco with the high beams on. Deer still ran into the side of my truck. IMO deer are completely predictable: they’re as stupid as an insect and as suicidal as can be. They want to die running into moving targets. Including, or rather especially, you. Truly they do.
Glad to hear you survived with mild injuries. My Bronco needed a lot more surgery than I would have expected for being hit by something weighing 3% of what it did.
Dude you flew fighters. Your view of what’s “dangerous”. is a a little warped.
Yeah… but in his jet He makes the decision when to be ejected. On a motorcycle, other drivers can decide for you.
Which brings up the question: Is motorcycling is more or less dangerous than general aviation? Answers abound on the web, but do you compare miles, or hours, or what? My take is that GA pilots control most of their risk, while cyclists are vulnerable to the actions of others.
I was going to post the following, and then you asked the question just upthread.
I’ve heard that on an hourly basis motorcycling and general aviation are equally risky.
BTW, I’m confused about all the comments about leaning. I think the motorcycle and all the people on it remain coplanar, straight relative to each other, and the whole assembly leans by pivoting at the contact point of the tires on the road. If the riders and frame are angled relative to each other, for one thing, you’re putting sideways stresses on the wheels, which don’t look designed for that. For another thing, the riders have to create torque around the travel axis, rather than just downforce on the seat. All the more so with bicycles, of which I think this is also true.
Are you all saying the motorcycle should remain plumb vertical, and the people lean off one side or the other?
This is why I don’t ride. The news report said he survived with injuries.
The motorcycle did nothing wrong. He’s stopped at a traffic light. A car would have offered some protection. It still would have been a bad accident.
For normal street riding at normal speeds, keeping the body straight on the motorcycle, and pivoting only at the tires’ contact patch will be fine. However, the rider can lean over even more, and that causes some desirable changes in the whole system.
When the rider slides off the seat towards the ground, and leans over as much as possible, “dragging a knee”, the center of gravity of the whole system is lowered. That allows the motorcycle itself to be put more upright than it would be if the rider and bike were a rigid system; raising the center of gravity again. Because the tires are more upright, they’re not working as hard at turning, so some of the grip can be used for braking or accelerating.
Or, the bike can be leaned over as much as possible, and then the rider leans off even more, so the bike can turn sharper, or at a higher rate of speed.
I’m sure I messed up some of the physics, but just watch 20 seconds of MotoGP racing to see how the riders move around to get maximum performance out of the bike/rider system.
In my experience, the best thing a passenger can do is be predictable. Leaning a bit and holding it probably won’t matter, but don’t move side to side, and shift around when the bike is cornering. That will change where the bike is going, and make it much harder for the rider to control.
If the passenger does need to shift around, do it while the bike is going straight. No amount of the passenger leaning or moving is going to upset the bike, because turns are initiated by countersteer, not leans. Of course if the shifting passenger grabs the rider’s arm, then that could be bad…
Wow. Well, that’s an entire little education, and an excellent post. Thank you! Ignorance fought! I had no idea, even though now I remember seeing riders in races contorting themselves in various ways – well, of course they had reasons! Now it makes sense!
When I took passengers on my bikes, I always told them not to lean in turns, because as @echoreply says, in normal street driving, the rider, passenger, and bike should all remain coplanar. The passenger leaning over more, or more likely IME, leaning in the opposite direction, can significantly alter the bike’s path from where the rider intended to go.
I think it very much depends on the environment. If you live in a rural or semi-rural environment, your safety mostly depends on how you drive your machine. On the other hand, if you live in the city of Chicago, I suggest you write your last Will & Testiment before you embark on what at any time could be your last ride.
The thing that hits me is the fact that the motorcycle accidents my friends died or almost died in would all have been minor incidents if driving a car. Traveling at car speeds on a bike means you cannot afford much any kind of mishap.
That reminds me of an incident from my own life. At one point I worked in downtown DC, and for reasons too complicated and boring to go into, moved from suburban Silver Spring, where I rode the Metro to work, to Columbia, MD, a drive of about 45 minutes in optimal conditions, which was never the case at rush hour.
My only vehicle at the time was a motorcycle. Although the sane part of me said I had to get a car, I decided to see what commuting on the bike would be like.
On the very first day, I pulled over on the side of the Balto-Wash Parkway when I saw some people struggling to pull a downed motorcycle out of the traffic lanes. The rider was lying on the shoulder after the accident, the others had stopped their cars to help (I don’t know if one of them had hit him), and they were waiting for the ambulance. None of them knew how to handle the downed bike, so I helped get it up and out of the way. Since there was nothing else I could do to help, I just went on my way. I don’t recall how badly he was hurt, and I never found out anything more about the incident.
Although I don’t believe in supernatural omens, I took it as a clear sign that I should not commute on my bike. I bought a car within the week.
The discussion about leaning puts in mind another factor I failed to consider. What if the passenger is really heavy, would that element make the enterprise any more hazardous?
Harder to keep the bike upright when you come to a stop.
I always told pasengers (as I learned in the Motorcycle Safety Foundation’s course) that they should keep their feet on the pegs when we came to a stop. But keeping the bike balanced while stationary would be more difficult if the passenger is really big. I don’t recall having a passenger big enough to cause a problem. I was usually the bigger one.
Yeah, the motorcycle is one thing, the first date is another. it was a kind of test of how adventurous/risk taking she was, putting her on the spot without any warning. And, to expect a woman to press herself against a man who is a total stranger for the length of a motorcycle ride?
I’d have done this when I was sixteen (okay, I actually did this when I was sixteen), but a mother with children? She’s well off without him.
In case you haven’t seen this video making the rounds, this shows what can happen even if the bike isn’t moving.…
If he had been in a car, he still would have been smacked, but would have had a steel cage and airbags.
I own a motorcycle.
with that said it is a gyro-stabilized 2 wheeled car with zero crush zone protection, airbags or seat-belts. ANY accident that would dent a car is a guaranteed ejection that is compounded by speed or objects that the rider hits.
It was perfectly logical for her to reject riding on one. I would place motorcycle riding skills as more difficult to learn to do (well) than flying a small airplane.
When my wife and I were still in that early stage of hanging out a lot, but maybe not really dating yet, I took her on the motorcycle. Her willingness to press herself against me and hold on tight communicated a great deal about her feelings.
Of course by that point we weren’t strangers, and I started with very easy and short rides, because I certainly did not want to scare her off if she wasn’t into it.
On a heavy bike (700-900 pounds), the weight of the passenger doesn’t matter as much. Some have enough handles and upholstery to keep the 2 riders kind of separated, which makes riding 2-up much easier. Sportbikes can weigh 400-500 pounds, so they’re more sensitive to passenger weight and height. On these, braking is very difficult, because the passenger is perched 6-8 inches higher than the rider and has nothing to hold onto except the rider. When stopping, the rider has to brace against most of his/her own weight, plus the weight of the passenger.
For many reasons, I don’t take passengers on my sportbike, but I did break my rule once a year for about 5 years. A friend asked me to take her for her 70th birthday. I think anyone that would ride on the back of a sportbike is nuts, but we did her birthday ride until her health made it impossible. She’s the ideal passenger: short, light, and fearless.
Way back when, for a few years they sold Quad ATVs that were trikes. Two rear wheels, one front. My sister and her husband had one along with a true quad.
One summer weekend I decided to try it out. I took my nephew (4 or 5 years old); he rode in front of me. Neither of us wore helmets.
I went flying through the woods and backroads. I started up a very steep hill and the front end began lifting up! I threw my body weight forward, but my nephew pushed back. It was a close call, but we made it.
Another time I was turning really sharp and one rear wheel lifted up a bit. I instinctively/stupidly put my one foot down and the wheel caught my shoe, tore it off my foot, and shot it out behind me. Ouch.