# How likely are sex workers to be exploited? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968 "2010-05-27T16:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/1 "2010-05-27T16:46:09Z")
Purely hypothetical I assure you, but if I were to patronize prostitutes of various types, how likely would it be that I would be participating in the exploitation of the women involved? I do NOT mean presuming that all prostitution is ipso facto exploitation. I mean how likely is it that the prostitutes I might patronize are illegal immigrants being held in debt slavery, or drug addicts working to feed their habits, or controlled by a brutal pimp? I would presume that high-end call girls are most likely to be sex workers by choice and street hookers in a poor neighborhood least likely. Posted in GD because I don’t know if a factual answer is available. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/2 "2010-05-27T17:13:26Z")
Let’s see what they say about it in Amsterdam, a region and culture where prostitution is legal: > [@](#): > > The Dutch believe that banning existing social phenomena makes them more difficult to control, and therefore more difficult to eliminate the gravest criminal behavior as trafficking with women, their exploitation and prostitution of minors. Dutch administration makes a big effort to fight all these criminal activities. > > [Amsterdam.info](http://www.amsterdam.info/prostitution/) It seems much more likely that exploitation is minimalized in areas and cultures where prostitution is not stigmatized and is regulated. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/3 "2010-05-27T18:06:13Z")
Extremely unlikely in most of the developed world. Even in the developing world, probably not much more so than women are in general. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/4 "2010-05-27T18:12:39Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > Extremely unlikely in most of the developed world. Even in the developing world, probably not much more so than women are in general. Are you responding to the OP, or to **JS Left Ea** r? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/5 "2010-05-27T18:15:50Z")
As you see by the quote (and other thigs I’ve read) even in Amsterdam, where it’s legal and regulated, it’s still a scuzzy business where drugs and coercion happen regularly. They may not chain the girls to the bed, but I’m sure they have the “do this or you’ll be deported back to Romania”. Debt slavery is always the big one, backed up by loan-shark type repayment demands. the one time I was in Amsterdam - you walk through the red light district, and the girls certainly don’t look like the type who arrived with their bag lunch in the morning and head back to the suburbs when their shift is over. Legends of self-managed rich callgirls notwithstanding, I suspect anyone who chooses to end up in that profession is pretty vulnerable to sttart with. Not sure how the situation is in Nevada, for example… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/6 "2010-05-27T18:28:26Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Are you responding to the OP, or to **JS Left Ea** r? The OP. Of course it also depends upon what you mean by “exploitation”. Is it exploitation to fuck someone who’s doing it of her own free will but so she can afford her next smack hit? In my view, no, but according to some people yes. I’m talking only about things like sex trafficking or what have you. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/7 "2010-05-27T19:58:05Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Purely hypothetical I assure you, but if I were to patronize prostitutes of various types, how likely would it be that I would be participating in the exploitation of the women involved? I do NOT mean presuming that all prostitution is ipso facto exploitation. I mean how likely is it that the prostitutes I might patronize are illegal immigrants being held in debt slavery, or drug addicts working to feed their habits, or controlled by a brutal pimp? I would presume that high-end call girls are most likely to be sex workers by choice and street hookers in a poor neighborhood least likely. It’s very likely. Nearly certain, in fact. Just consider [the following report](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/12/07/091207fa_fact_buruma) from the Netherlands: > [@](#): > > Many dutch liberals themselves have started to take a dim view of the sex and drug trades, but for different reasons. Over the past decade or so, it became clear that brothels, sex stores, clubs, and hash cafes were being used to launder large amounts of money for Serbian, Russian, Turkish, and Israeli crime syndicates. A report written in 2005, by a liberal politician who had herself worked as a prostitute, revealed that many of the women had been forced into the sex industry. It slowly dawned on people that “doing your own thing” had reached its limits, and that civic virtues had to be reinvented. Being able to rent a Thai girl for an hour, or to buy a bag of Nepalese black hashish, was all very well, but Amsterdam, in the words of Lodewijk Asscher, a prominent city alderman, “had become to much of a magnet for international crime.” If that’s what the situation is like in the Netherlands, you can probably guess what it’s like in places such as [Cambodia](http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/2007/01/nicholas-kristof-journeys-into.html). Or if factual reports from the field don’t sway you, just ask yourself these questions: 1. Would you choose to let any man offering a sufficient amount of money to ram his penis into your body? 2. If your answer to the previous question is “no”, then what makes you think anyone else would ever answer “yes”? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/8 "2010-05-27T20:07:12Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake, Cambodia’s got very limited women’s rights anyway. The sex trade is in line with cultural norms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/9 "2010-05-27T20:32:29Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > Extremely unlikely in most of the developed world. Even in the developing world, probably not much more so than women are in general. Uhm, cite? For both claims. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/10 "2010-05-27T20:47:22Z")
Here’s a [set of figures](http://nhtrc.polarisproject.org/materials/Human-Trafficking-Statistics.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/11 "2010-05-27T21:17:04Z")
It’s difficult to determine the likelihood that a sex worker you might hypothetically hire would be exploited, of course. That said, sex trafficking is a big business. Acting as a customer in an illicit sex trade contributes to a demand that _will_ be met in some part by trafficked and exploited persons. It seems sensible to me that a reduction in demand for illicit sex trade will result in a decreased demand for trafficked persons. It might seem logical that the occurrence of exploitation would be lower in an environment of legal, regulated sex trade, but that is [not necessarily true](http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/netherl.htm). ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/12 "2010-05-27T21:26:56Z")
In Nevada, highly unlikely _ **if** _ you patronize a legal brothel. The legal prostitutes we know personally are quite well off. In Las Vagas and Reno things may be quite different. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/13 "2010-05-27T21:41:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Uhm, cite? For both claims. All common bloody sense. Seriously, think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/14 "2010-05-27T21:48:04Z")
Your “common sense” appears to conflict with readily available statistics, so a cite supporting your assertions would be most welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/15 "2010-05-27T22:00:35Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Oh for fuck’s sake, Cambodia’s got very limited women’s rights anyway. The sex trade is in line with cultural norms. That’s not saying very much, then, is it? That is, “They’re exploited, but so’s everyone else.” Also, how does common sense tell us that they’re not exploited? If anything, for me it would go the other way–someone who’s in the position where they’re selling themselves for money probably doesn’t have a lot of freedom or autonomy. And since this isn’t a regulated trade in most of the world, what happens when a customer doesn’t pay/take no for an answer? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/16 "2010-05-27T22:06:12Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Extremely unlikely in most of the developed world. Even in the developing world, probably not much more so than women are in general. According to Gavin Newsom, mayor of San Francisco, it is a huge problem. He even helped create a task force to fight it. [http://www.preda.org/main/archives/research/st/r06100601.html](http://www.preda.org/main/archives/research/st/r06100601.html) > [@](#): > > Relying on research from the Central Intelligence Agency, the State Department estimates there are 14,500 to 17,500 human trafficking victims brought into the United States each year – but does not quantify how many of those are sex victims. Some advocacy groups place the number of U.S. victims much higher, while others criticize the government for overstating the problem. So 16,000 a year is a big number, but that is out of 315 million people. At the same time I do remember an NPR story about a woman who fights human trafficking who is upset that when it comes to human traffic all people think about is sex trafficking when in her experience non-sexual trafficking (domestic servants, farm labor) is a far bigger problem with far more victims. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/17 "2010-05-27T22:23:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > So 16,000 a year is a big number, but that is out of 315 million people. That’s the estimated number of victims trafficked into the US each year. Add to that the number of foreign trafficked victims from previous years still enslaved within the US, plus the number of US nationals who are trafficked and you’ll end up with an alarming figure. Compare that number not to the total population, but to the estimated total number of sex workers in the US for greater relevance to this thread. The results are unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/18 "2010-05-27T22:52:24Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > That’s not saying very much, then, is it? That is, “They’re exploited, but so’s everyone else.” > > Also, how does common sense tell us that they’re not exploited? If anything, for me it would go the other way–someone who’s in the position where they’re selling themselves for money probably doesn’t have a lot of freedom or autonomy. And since this isn’t a regulated trade in most of the world, what happens when a customer doesn’t pay/take no for an answer? It’s relevant because you need to look at what’s going on in a relativist fashion. In the same way that a Vietnamese pimp would probably look at the US minimum wage delirious with envy. If kids are being betrothed forcefully at the age of 12 to 35 year old men, then it seems absurd to me to concentrate on 14 year old prostitutes. It isn’t a sex worker issue; it’s a problem with the entirety of the culture and the sex worker label is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/19 "2010-05-27T22:53:43Z")
> [@Tymp](#): > > Your “common sense” appears to conflict with readily available statistics, so a cite supporting your assertions would be most welcome. The figures you provide are simply ridiculous. May I suggest you look at [www.adultwork.co.uk](http://www.adultwork.co.uk) and tell me how many of them are being exploited? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/20 "2010-05-27T23:05:51Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > what happens when a customer doesn’t pay/take no for an answer? A further point about this. Clearly the latter situation is rape. I mean… that’s not even ambiguous. (The severity of rape may be ambiguous; I watched a documentary today linked to from this board stating that 80% of Liberian women are raped. I would submit that in a society like that rape isn’t as awful as it is here, although needless to say it is still awful, but that’s another debate) The customer not paying is basically a civil matter. The sex worker has consented to sex, in the expectation of being paid. The latter expectation not being met does not invalidate the former. However, in the countries where there is exploitation by western standards methinks the customer is not going to get away with that… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=2)