# How likely are sex workers to be exploited? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968 "2010-05-27T16:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/21 "2010-05-27T23:09:48Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > According to Gavin Newsom, mayor of San Francisco, it is a huge problem. He even helped create a task force to fight it. We had new laws made up about it, that made it an absolute offence for a man to have sex with a trafficked woman, mens rea or not, and if anyone has been prosecuted for it it will be in the single digits! It genuinely is practically a myth in civil societies. I absolutely agree it is a much greater problem in developing countries, but it really has to be seen within the context of these countries being shit in so many other ways, that the sex workers are not getting a much worse deal than the rest of their populations. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/22 "2010-05-27T23:45:27Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > 1. Would you choose to let any man offering a sufficient amount of money to ram his penis into your body? No. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > 1. If your answer to the previous question is “no”, then what makes you think anyone else would ever answer “yes”? Because I’m not the center of the universe, and neither are you. Other peoples’ choices in this area aren’t my business. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/23 "2010-05-28T00:07:37Z")
It always boggles me in these discussions that people assume there’s this huge shortage of sane women who would be willing to make crazy amounts of money doing a job that doesn’t require much in the way of skills and isn’t particularly difficult. So the assumption is that therefore anyone would do it is already damaged, and you’re likely exploiting them. Seems like a good gig to me. A lot of the exploitation comes from the illegality - you need pimps to protect your territory, keep you safe, it disincentivizes law abiding citizens from the work, etc. I don’t know why we couldn’t have an army of non-broken, non-exploited hookers if it were legal. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/24 "2010-05-28T00:23:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Purely hypothetical I assure you, but if I were to patronize prostitutes of various types, how likely would it be that I would be participating in the exploitation of the women involved? I do NOT mean presuming that all prostitution is ipso facto exploitation. I mean how likely is it that the prostitutes I might patronize are illegal immigrants being held in debt slavery, or drug addicts working to feed their habits, or controlled by a brutal pimp? I would presume that high-end call girls are most likely to be sex workers by choice and street hookers in a poor neighborhood least likely. > > Posted in GD because I don’t know if a factual answer is available. …well, the answer is, of course, it depends. For starters, what country are you talking about? How do you define exploited? If you were to use a legal prostitute in New Zealand, for example, there is very little chance she is being “exploited” depending on your definition of the word. The industry is highly regulated and designed to prevent exploitation and make things safer and equitable between both prostitutes and their patrons. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/25 "2010-05-28T00:32:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It always boggles me in these discussions that people assume there’s this huge shortage of sane women who would be willing to make crazy amounts of money doing a job that doesn’t require much in the way of skills and isn’t particularly difficult. So the assumption is that therefore anyone would do it is already damaged, and you’re likely exploiting them. Maybe it is a bad assumption to make but I don’t think most of us would not be swelling with pride (poor choice of words) to find that our mother, sister, wife, or daughter decided to become a prostitute even if it was legal. I don’t have children, but if my daughter started working in a brothel in Las Vegas I’d seriously try to figure out just where the hell I went wrong as a parent. I’m actually a proponent for the legalization of prostitution as I think it would go a lot further towards mitigating a lot of abuses that do occur because of it’s illegal and clandestine nature. The prostitutes I’ve seen/read being interviewed even in places like Amsterdam did it because they had few other options. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/26 "2010-05-28T00:47:03Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Maybe it is a bad assumption to make but I don’t think most of us would not be swelling with pride (poor choice of words) to find that our mother, sister, wife, or daughter decided to become a prostitute even if it was legal. I don’t have children, but if my daughter started working in a brothel in Las Vegas I’d seriously try to figure out just where the hell I went wrong as a parent. I’m actually a proponent for the legalization of prostitution as I think it would go a lot further towards mitigating a lot of abuses that do occur because of it’s illegal and clandestine nature. The prostitutes I’ve seen/read being interviewed even in places like Amsterdam did it because they had few other options. But that’s becuase by nature we are protective of our female relatives’ virtue. However… We either surpress this instinct, or we have sexual inequality. I don’t really care which as either ends up with whores in the long run, but let’s please try to be consistent, ok? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/27 "2010-05-28T02:10:30Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > But that’s becuase by nature we are protective of our female relatives’ virtue. I didn’t bring up males because the vast majority of prostitutes are female. > [@](#): > > However… We either surpress this instinct, or we have sexual inequality. I don’t really care which as either ends up with whores in the long run, but let’s please try to be consistent, ok? Where was I inconsistent? ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/28 "2010-05-28T03:22:53Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > The figures you provide are simply ridiculous. > > May I suggest you look at [www.adultwork.co.uk](http://www.adultwork.co.uk) and tell me how many of them are being exploited? Ok. I’m ready to accept any new information that you have to offer. Please specify which of the following institutions referenced in my first link is/are supplying ridiculous figures: US State Department International Labor Organization US Department of Justice UN Office on Drugs and Crime US Department of Health and Human Services US Department of Homeland Security US Agency for International Development US Citizenship and Immigration Services University of Pennsylvania School of Social Work US Federal Bureau of Investigation Civil Rights unit US Government Accountability Office Also, the website you have offered as… refutation(?) appears not to list any research on sex trafficking. I’d appreciate it if you’d point me toward the relevant data. It appears to be a market for listings of available services. I have no way of evaluating, as you suggest, if any of the people offering their services through that website are exploited in any way. I also don’t know what that has to do with the topic at hand. There are more sex workers in the world than there are trafficked persons and not all trafficked persons are sex workers. So, it is perfectly obvious that not all sex workers are trafficked. If that’s the point you want to make, try making it to someone who claimed otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/29 "2010-05-28T07:05:30Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The prostitutes I’ve seen/read being interviewed even in places like Amsterdam did it because they had few other options. There’s probably an element of selection bias in the things you’ve seen or read, though. I’ve certainly seen interviews with sex workers in Amsterdam saying they did it because it was great money for relatively short hours. A fairly extensive [survey](http://www.justice.govt.nz/policy-and-consultation/legislation/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/plrc-report/5-avoiding-or-exiting-the-sex-industry#541) of sex workers in New Zealand following decriminalisation found it to be largely a myth that most of them do it because of a lack of other options. I think it’s also useful to keep in mind that doing a particular job because you _have_ to do it, rather than because it’s what you _want_ to do, is a widespread phenomenon, hardly limited to the sex industry. Nobody grows up dreaming of scrubbing toilets or washing dishes. In recessionary times in particular, people will do all sorts of work they would ordinarily consider below them; there are master’s degree holders working in retail shops for example (indeed the government may effectively \*coerce \* them into doing so by denying them unemployment benefit if they refuse). But you never hear it said that you’re exploiting them by availing of the services they’re offering. ---
**Author:** ![Ataraxia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Ataraxia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ataraxia)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/30 "2010-05-28T07:24:41Z")
> [@](#): > > (The severity of rape may be ambiguous; I watched a documentary today linked to from this board stating that 80% of Liberian women are raped. I would submit that in a society like that rape isn’t as awful as it is here, although needless to say it is still awful, but that’s another debate) What are you trying to say here? I’m really scratching my head at how the severity of rape can be “ambiguous” in any particular country- let alone one where rape has become so common as the result of a fourteen civil war where violent gang rape was employed as a psychological weapon of war aimed specifically to humiliate and demoralize. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/31 "2010-05-28T07:37:17Z")
> [@Ataraxia](#): > > What are you trying to say here? I’m really scratching my head at how the severity of rape can be “ambiguous” in any particular country- let alone one where rape has become so common as the result of a fourteen civil war where violent gang rape was employed as a psychological weapon of war aimed specifically to humiliate and demoralize. I think he’s trying to say that repeated rape, along with the repeated rape of most of the women you know, in the middle of a civil war, is somehow better than a one-off rape in the Western world where you will usually be offered support and counselling to help you deal with it. I don’t know how he came to that conclusion, but it’s probably his special brand of common sense. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/32 "2010-05-28T07:46:32Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > At the same time I do remember an NPR story about a woman who fights human trafficking who is upset that when it comes to human traffic all people think about is sex trafficking when in her experience non-sexual trafficking (domestic servants, farm labor) is a far bigger problem with far more victims. Yes this is a big problem. Many of the leading “anti-trafficking” organisations are, in reality, anti-prostitution organisations (e.g. the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women) and they have effectively redefined the global slave trade as a trade in women and children for sexual purposes. So policymakers’ _solutions_ to trafficking have often tended to focus primarily on measures to eliminate prostitution. Whatever the effects these measures have on sex trafficking victims and non-trafficked sex workers - and there is considerable debate about that - they certainly do nothing for the millions of people in forced \*non-\*sexual labour. Furthermore, there is a failure to recognise that traffickers are criminals first and foremost and even if you could eliminate sex trafficking through anti-prostitution measures, they would simply turn to other forms of trafficking. There is some evidence that this has happened in Sweden, for example, since the purchase of sex was outlawed there. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/33 "2010-05-28T12:51:42Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > A further point about this. > > Clearly the latter situation is rape. I mean… that’s not even ambiguous. > > (The severity of rape may be ambiguous; I watched a documentary today linked to from this board stating that 80% of Liberian women are raped. I would submit that in a society like that rape isn’t as awful as it is here, although needless to say it is still awful, but that’s another debate) > > The customer not paying is basically a civil matter. The sex worker has consented to sex, in the expectation of being paid. The latter expectation not being met does not invalidate the former. > > However, in the countries where there is exploitation by western standards methinks the customer is not going to get away with that… So if it happens more, it’s not that bad? Do you genuinely think that or do you just want to believe that because the alternative is pretty grim? And you think the customer is going to get away with less in an exploitative country where women are routinely taken advantage of? Not being snarky but are you genuinely trying to be the most misogynist poster on the boards? Between this, “snakes with tits,” and the whole passive aggressive females post, you’re not coming off well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/34 "2010-05-28T13:54:09Z")
How did a post about sex workers become one about rape? ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/35 "2010-05-28T13:59:58Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Yes this is a big problem. Many of the leading “anti-trafficking” organisations are, in reality, anti-prostitution organisations (e.g. the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women) and they have effectively redefined the global slave trade as a trade in women and children for sexual purposes. So policymakers’ _solutions_ to trafficking have often tended to focus primarily on measures to eliminate prostitution. Whatever the effects these measures have on sex trafficking victims and non-trafficked sex workers - and there is considerable debate about that - they certainly do nothing for the millions of people in forced \*non-\*sexual labour. I think it’s in no way surprising that an organization called the Coalition Against Trafficking in _Women_ would focus more effort on anti-sex trafficking than anything else, as the majority of women trafficked in the world are trafficked for sex. Labor trafficking and particularly trafficking in men gets less attention even though it’s at least as insidious as sex trafficking. The OP asks specifically about trafficking and exploitation in the context of sex trade, so I don’t know that a discussion of labor trafficking is appropriate here. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/36 "2010-05-28T14:14:57Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > How did a post about sex workers become one about rape? Well, it’s about sex workers being exploited. You don’t see the connection? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/37 "2010-05-28T14:37:56Z")
There are lots of forms of exploitation that do not involve rape. Because it can be argued that we are all exploited at our jobs in one way or another, but we are not usually raped there. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/38 "2010-05-28T15:04:08Z")
> [@Ataraxia](#): > > What are you trying to say here? I’m really scratching my head at how the severity of rape can be “ambiguous” in any particular country- let alone one where rape has become so common as the result of a fourteen civil war where violent gang rape was employed as a psychological weapon of war aimed specifically to humiliate and demoralize. It’s again relativism; same way that murder isn’t so severe over there either. Basically they have a culture at the moment that life is cheap and human rights are not respected. I don’t think you can judge an act outside of its sociological, economic, historical, cultural context. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/39 "2010-05-28T15:11:07Z")
There are other forms of exploitation, but forcing someone against their will to engage in sex seems a lot closer to rape than forcing them to work. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/40 "2010-05-28T15:11:30Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > It’s again relativism; same way that _ **murder isn’t so severe over there either.** _ (bolding and italics added) This is so dumb, I may have to use it as a sig. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=3)