# How likely are sex workers to be exploited? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968 "2010-05-27T16:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/41 "2010-05-28T15:15:10Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > (bolding and italics added) > > This is so dumb, I may have to use it as a sig. Actually, it’s not dumb at all. Consider where ethics/morality (dunno the difference) come from. Either we have a higher power of some kind dictating the rules - fine, but haven’t seen the evidence yet - or the rules have to be developed by humans. Taking the latter as the likely position, there’s not any particular reason why any of the rules have to be set in stone. One man’s sin is another man’s righteousness, and what not. It is absolutely obvious that they have a different set of beliefs regarding morality over there. They need to be judged in that context. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/42 "2010-05-28T15:19:00Z")
Yeah. People “over there” just rape and murder and don’t really care. What the fuck? What happened to you? You used to be somewhat reasonable when you were **Angry Lurker** , and now it’s like you’re the poster child for hatred of women and other cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/43 "2010-05-28T15:29:47Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yeah. People “over there” just rape and murder and don’t really care. > > What the fuck? What happened to you? You used to be somewhat reasonable when you were **Angry Lurker** , and now it’s like you’re the poster child for hatred of women and other cultures. Could you please refrain from running around every thread I post in to claim I hate women, it’s ridiculous and it doesn’t make you look good. There isn’t an established right or wrong here. It’s perfectly reasonable to take the opposing viewpoint to me and consider a crime is just as evil no matter what the context. I don’t think philosophers have resolved this one yet. Kant’s probably on your side, Bentham’s probably on mine, and I haven’t a fucking clue what Wittgenstein was going on about. The reason I disagree with the concept of universal rights is that it just doesn’t seem to fit in with the way the world works, or ever has worked. By all means we can work towards a system where there are universal rights, and I happen to favour that, but I don’t see any justification for proclaiming that they already exist. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/44 "2010-05-28T15:34:00Z")
It would be a lot easier if you dropped “snakes with tits” from your vocab. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/45 "2010-05-28T15:44:09Z")
Oh come on, look at the context where I used it ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/46 "2010-05-28T15:52:00Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Actually, it’s not dumb at all. > > Consider where ethics/morality (dunno the difference) come from. Either we have a higher power of some kind dictating the rules - fine, but haven’t seen the evidence yet - or the rules have to be developed by humans. > > Taking the latter as the likely position, there’s not any particular reason why any of the rules have to be set in stone. One man’s sin is another man’s righteousness, and what not. > > It is absolutely obvious that they have a different set of beliefs regarding morality over there. They need to be judged in that context. Cultural relativism is all very well, but murder is kind of one of those absolutes. You’re either alive, or you’re dead. One presumes that most live people are in favor of not being dead, regardless of culture. Murder is severe, no matter where you are. Your overall premise seems to be that ‘other cultures are different, so we can’t say anything about them’, maybe they don’t mind being murdered like us. There’s a weird colonial smell about your posts. It’s very curious. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/47 "2010-05-28T15:57:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Oh come on, look at the context where I used it Is there ever a context where it’s OK to paint all women as snakes because _one_ women committed an objectionable act? If someone starts a thread about an annoying person who happens to be black, would you think it’s OK to call the obnoxious guy a black bastard? And this whole moral relativism thing reads to me like someone who’s read an article (by an Evil Librul, natch) about cultural relativism and is deciding to parody it by taking it its “logical” conclusion. “If there’s different cultures that we have to respect…and other cultures have murder and rape…WE HAVE TO RESPECT MURDER AND RAPE!” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/48 "2010-05-28T15:58:56Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > 1. Would you choose to let any man offering a sufficient amount of money to ram his penis into your body? > > 2. If your answer to the previous question is “no”, then what makes you think anyone else would ever answer “yes”? I can’t imagine believing in God, either. Does that make us all atheists? People are different, and will accept different things. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/49 "2010-05-28T15:59:55Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Cultural relativism is all very well, but murder is kind of one of those absolutes. You’re either alive, or you’re dead. One presumes that most live people are in favor of not being dead, regardless of culture. Murder is severe, no matter where you are. Your overall premise seems to be that ‘other cultures are different, so we can’t say anything about them’, maybe they don’t mind being murdered like us. > > There’s a weird colonial smell about your posts. It’s very curious. There’s nothing colonial about it, although I can see how it could be interpreted as a belief that an African life is worth less - but that would not be understanding my point. I would feel similarly about, say, foreign journalists that were there. Reasonably in the context their lives would be cheaper too, although not quite so much as they were not fully immersed in the culture. You can declare murder an absolute if you like, but you must understand that there is no objective reason for doing so - the finality is irrelevant. I don’t accept that we can’t say anything about their culture (and again I emphasise it isn’t just culture, but the entire context) - we can attack it as much as we like. But I don’t see that we have any objective basis for saying that we’re definitely right. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/50 "2010-05-28T16:03:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is there ever a context where it’s OK to paint all women as snakes because _one_ women committed an objectionable act? If someone starts a thread about an annoying person who happens to be black, would you think it’s OK to call the obnoxious guy a black bastard? If I thought it would cheer them up, sure. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And this whole moral relativism thing reads to me like someone who’s read an article (by an Evil Librul, natch) about cultural relativism and is deciding to parody it by taking it its “logical” conclusion. “If there’s different cultures that we have to respect…and other cultures have murder and rape…WE HAVE TO RESPECT MURDER AND RAPE!” This isn’t cultural relativism, this is moral/ethical relativism. I am always happy to be proven wrong, but no one has yet convinced me that there is an objective moral or ethical system. The only ones that even make a lick of scientific sense are semi-Darwinist ones and they would not have an absolute viewpoint on murder or rape. But then again there is no point in making Darwinism an ethicical system, as it becomes a tautology and completely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/51 "2010-05-28T16:04:05Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I can’t imagine believing in God, either. Does that make us all atheists? People are different, and will accept different things. Heh, I just noticed this question. Of course I’d let a man stick his cock in me for a sufficient sum of money. Be ridiculous not to. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/52 "2010-05-28T16:10:57Z")
The originator of this thread, Lumpy, is located in Minnesota. Based on that, could we agree to limit our discussion to the prevalence of exploitation among sex workers in the US? If yes, is there some argument that trafficked sex workers in the US are somehow not being exploited? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/53 "2010-05-28T16:21:18Z")
> [@Tymp](#): > > The originator of this thread, Lumpy, is located in Minnesota. Based on that, could we agree to limit our discussion to the prevalence of exploitation among sex workers in the US? If yes, is there some argument that trafficked sex workers in the US are somehow not being exploited? Well what’s there to discuss? Trafficked sex workers (in the sense that you and I would understand trafficked, which probably isn’t the same as the government definition) are obviously being exploited. No one disagrees with that. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/54 "2010-05-28T16:28:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It always boggles me in these discussions that people assume there’s this huge shortage of sane women who would be willing to make crazy amounts of money doing a job that doesn’t require much in the way of skills and isn’t particularly difficult. So the assumption is that therefore anyone would do it is already damaged, and you’re likely exploiting them. > > Seems like a good gig to me. A lot of the exploitation comes from the illegality - you need pimps to protect your territory, keep you safe, it disincentivizes law abiding citizens from the work, etc. I don’t know why we couldn’t have an army of non-broken, non-exploited hookers if it were legal. Although it’s been kind of mentioned, I don’t see that anyone has stated this explicitly: Even in Amsterdam, where prostitution is legal and open, the vast majority of Dutch women are not prostitutes. So there must be a downside to prostitution you’re not considering. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/55 "2010-05-28T16:40:14Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Although it’s been kind of mentioned, I don’t see that anyone has stated this explicitly: Even in Amsterdam, where prostitution is legal and open, the vast majority of Dutch women are not prostitutes. So there must be a downside to prostitution you’re not considering. There’s an incredibly obvious downside, which is that it massively reduces their pool of potential partners. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/56 "2010-05-28T16:48:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Well what’s there to discuss? Trafficked sex workers (in the sense that you and I would understand trafficked, which probably isn’t the same as the government definition) are obviously being exploited. No one disagrees with that. Here’s your initial response to the OP: > [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Extremely unlikely in most of the developed world. Even in the developing world, probably not much more so than women are in general. If you count the US as part of the developed world, and you count trafficked sex workers in the US as being exploited, by what measures and logic do you come to the position that it is extremely unlikely that a sex worker in the US is being exploited? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/57 "2010-05-28T17:02:45Z")
> [@Tymp](#): > > If you count the US as part of the developed world, and you count trafficked sex workers in the US as being exploited, by what measures and logic do you come to the position that it is extremely unlikely that a sex worker in the US is being exploited? Because it is extremely unlikely that she has been trafficked. Here is some sanity: [http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/03/sex-women-trafficking-agustin](http://www.newstatesman.com/books/2008/03/sex-women-trafficking-agustin) ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/58 "2010-05-28T17:17:38Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Because it is extremely unlikely that she has been trafficked. Could you quantify that for me? What number of sex workers in the US do you think have been trafficked, and how many sex workers do you think there are in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/59 "2010-05-28T17:18:51Z")
> [@Tymp](#): > > Could you quantify that for me? What number of sex workers in the US do you think have been trafficked, and how many sex workers do you think there are in the US? WAG: Less than 1000, more than 500 000. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/60 "2010-05-28T17:23:25Z")
And furthermore, it will be incredibly obvious to the punter when there’s some possibility that they’ve been trafficked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=4)