# How likely are sex workers to be exploited? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968 "2010-05-27T16:46:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/81 "2010-05-30T02:22:23Z")
> [@Shawn\_K\_1](#): > > I just went and read “Private Dancer” online last night, that was a really good book Siam Sam, thanks. Very entertaining and educational. > > It would seem a fair bit of the advice to be gleaned from that could be applied to any relationship not just one with a sex worker. If you liked it, I urge you to buy a copy online. (No, I am NOT Stephen Leather.) I haven’t read the online version, but I know the finished product has more added, especially the wonderful little Epilogue telling what becomes of all of the characters in later life. Zombie Bar in the book is obviously Voodoo Bar in real life. Can’t quite get a handle on which bar Spicey is supposed to be. The author has already stated Fatso’s Bar is the fictional version of the real-life Brit hangout Jool’s. All other bar and hotel names in the book are real. And the character of Big Ron is based on the real-life Big Dave, owner of Jool’s. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/82 "2010-05-30T02:40:13Z")
Holy shit, I knew Big Dave! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/83 "2010-05-30T18:07:59Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I would presume that high-end call girls are most likely to be sex workers by choice They may start by choice, but most give a good chunk of their earnings to their booker and agency (hey, like models!) and, if they weren’t taking drugs before, they’re more than likely going to start to help them deal with the long hours or to help them zone out. I’m acquainted with someone who genuinely enjoyed being a prostitute and made hundreds of thousands doing it. But she was also a drug addict, and estimated about 90% of her coworkers were, too. > [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > It’s relevant because you need to look at what’s going on in a relativist fashion. In the same way that a Vietnamese pimp would probably look at the US minimum wage delirious with envy. > > If kids are being betrothed forcefully at the age of 12 to 35 year old men, then it seems absurd to me to concentrate on 14 year old prostitutes. It isn’t a sex worker issue; it’s a problem with the entirety of the culture and the sex worker label is irrelevant. Except that they’re being pimped out to people from societies where 12-year-old brides are _not_ acceptable (though, of course, those norms may just be for _their_ country or race’s 12-year-old girls). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/84 "2010-05-30T20:10:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > if they weren’t taking drugs before, they’re more than likely going to start to help them deal with the long hours or to help them zone out. I’m acquainted with someone who genuinely enjoyed being a prostitute and made hundreds of thousands doing it. But she was also a drug addict, and estimated about 90% of her coworkers were, too. Drug abuse is endemic in a number of professions, including [law](http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article4887683.ece), [academia](http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4025711,00.html) and I’m sure you don’t need me to dig up links to the entertainment industry. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/85 "2010-05-31T20:10:26Z")
I’ve seen several articles that suggest that many (most? a lot of?) sex trade workers are suffering from low self esteem. This, rather than desperation, is the main reason they end up in sex work. A huge number were abused as younger girls. Usually this relates to sex trade workers practicing illegally in North America. No surprise there; given the general societal view of sex trade workers, it would take a very healthy self-image and some massive self-confidence to not start hating yourself. Plus, many of the stories these prostitutes tell are very similar; they get befriended (especially young runaways) and given a small taste of the party life. When they are heavily dependant financially socially and emotionally, and also possibly hooked on drugs, the “time to pay it back” speech follows. They are expected to earn to pay back all that the pimp has spent on them so far. Once they have gotten into that hole it’s hard to stand up for themselves and get out. So even in our “enlightened” North American society, exploitation is a significant player in the trade. As I said earlier, the fact that the trade finds in necessary to import girls for a place like Amsterdam and they tell similar stories of exploitation, suggests that even in that setting exploitation is needed. As for cultural relativism - “morality” is the framework of rules by which a society operates that keep it functioning normally. The fact that murder, for example, appears to be an absolute is because there are no societies I am aware of where arbitrarily killing another member of the society is a practical means of running a society; therefore it should not be allowed and is not allowed by any of them. There may be specially crafted exceptions: - some societies seem to thing it is OK to kill someone who has shamed you - many make an exception for self defence or euthanasia - many societies allowed tacit approval of murdering a cheating spouse (some only the wife) - some allowed murder of his/her correspondent too. So murder appears to be an absolute because uncontrolled murder is almost impossible to permit in a functional society. Similarly, there were societies where other exceptions were allowed - was it one of the middle east or mediterranean societies where you could escape a rape charge by offering to marry the victim. (Huh? Worked for them… The biggest problem was that a “used” woman was “unclean goods” and someone had to take care of her. At least we’re not talking about some middle east and asian societies where the solution is to kill the victim. Isn’t society grand?) Moral relativism says something about the value put on the various players by their society. We have to step back one step further, and judge a society overall by the quality of its valuation of its members. Perhaps that is the more absolute judgment - “do their rules do justice for all members?” Any “morality” which simply protects the status quo and the socially dominant group at the expense of the unprivileged has flaws. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/86 "2010-05-31T21:57:55Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Drug abuse is endemic in a number of professions, including [law](http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article4887683.ece), [academia](http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4025711,00.html) and I’m sure you don’t need me to dig up links to the entertainment industry. Sure, but I’d really rather my lawyer not be on heroin while I’m paying him. And I’m not planning on putting my penis in him, either. > [@md2000](#): > > Plus, many of the stories these prostitutes tell are very similar; they get befriended (especially young runaways) and given a small taste of the party life. When they are heavily dependant financially socially and emotionally, and also possibly hooked on drugs, the “time to pay it back” speech follows. They are expected to earn to pay back all that the pimp has spent on them so far. Once they have gotten into that hole it’s hard to stand up for themselves and get out. Right, and by some people’s definition this is not exploitation. They want to make sure that the prostitute who is giving them a hard on is something like the Happy Hooker rather than a woman or girl who spends most of her time in shackles. Being dependent on drugs, unable to find a job to feed her children, starting the work herself as a runaway or anything else is a grey area, for some. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/87 "2010-06-01T04:13:13Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Let’s see what they say about it in Amsterdam, a region and culture where prostitution is legal:It seems much more likely that exploitation is minimalized in areas and cultures where prostitution is not stigmatized and is regulated. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/88 "2010-06-01T04:15:05Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Or if factual reports from the field don’t sway you, just ask yourself these questions: > > 1. Would you choose to let any man offering a sufficient amount of money to ram his penis into your body? > > 2. If your answer to the previous question is “no”, then what makes you think anyone else would ever answer “yes”? 😕😕😕 All people feel and think exactly alike? Would that be about everything, or just this thing? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/89 "2010-06-01T04:19:37Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The prostitutes I’ve seen/read being interviewed even in places like Amsterdam did it because they had few other options. Which is true of a lot of jobs that have unpleasant aspects. Why single out prostitution? Especially given the fact that many prostitutes are completely fine with it, in every way. Choosing prostitution is very empowering. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/90 "2010-06-01T15:37:38Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > 1. Would you choose to let any man offering a sufficient amount of money to ram his penis into your body? > > 2. If your answer to the previous question is “no”, then what makes you think anyone else would ever answer “yes”? I’m not defending prostitution, but come on, that’s a dumb argument. Some people would do _tons_ of stuff that I personally wouldn’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/91 "2010-06-01T15:41:26Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Which is true of a lot of jobs that have unpleasant aspects. Why single out prostitution? > > Especially given the fact that many prostitutes are completely fine with it, in every way. Choosing prostitution is very empowering. Is it really all that empowering? Are there that many people choosing it who are educated or have other options? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/92 "2010-06-01T16:00:49Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is it really all that empowering? Are there that many people choosing it who are educated or have other options? The thread title is about “sex workers,” not just prostitutes. I can tell you that a a lot of dominatrixes usually have other options available to them. Though they do not have sex (or shouldn’t) they are usually lumped in with other sex workers with little protest. And every dominatrix I have ever met is very empowered by their jobs. I know that’s a small sample size but given what the position entails, it’s not too surprising. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/93 "2010-06-01T16:08:08Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is it really all that empowering? Are there that many people choosing it who are educated or have other options? In _Super Freakonomics_, Levitt and Dubner present a case study of just such a sex worker. She made about $170,000/year. They estimate that there are fewer than 1,000 folks like her in the US, though. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/94 "2010-06-01T16:09:44Z")
**John Stamos** –I’m not sure that I’d lump a dominatrix in with sex workers if they’re not actually having sex. > [@StusBlues](#): > > In _Super Freakonomics_, Levitt and Dubner present a case study of just such a sex worker. She made about $170,000/year. They estimate that there are fewer than 1,000 folks like her in the US, though. Yeah…I mean, in theory if there are people like this, great. I’m just not sure that this is all that common. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/95 "2010-06-01T16:23:43Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > **John Stamos** –I’m not sure that I’d lump a dominatrix in with sex workers if they’re not actually having sex. Neither are people having phone sex but they’re sex workers. I have always seen dominatrixes lumped in with sex workers and have heard no problems about this from dominatrixes or other sex workers. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/96 "2010-06-01T16:24:43Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yeah…I mean, in theory if there are people like this, great. I’m just not sure that this is all that common. I concur. The woman L&D profile was very well-adjusted before becoming a sex worker, and was certainly not pressured into the profession–she was pimp-free, and left to pursue a degree in Economics. Her youth was pretty bad, however; IIRC, she was molested as a child (though the blog I just looked at on the NYT Freakonomics blog contradicts this). She wasn’t exploited in any conventional use of the word, but the case could be made that hers wasn’t exactly a rational career choice in the sense that applying at IBM would be. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/97 "2010-06-01T16:40:27Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Is it really all that empowering? Are there that many people choosing it who are educated or have other options? Absolutely! The majority of call girls, escorts, and other non-street-level prostitutes are educated and have other options, and a significant percentage of them are actually paying their way through college with the work. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/98 "2010-06-01T16:42:26Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > In _Super Freakonomics_, Levitt and Dubner present a case study of just such a sex worker. She made about $170,000/year. They estimate that there are fewer than 1,000 folks like her in the US, though. I believe in this instance, “estimate” = WAG. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/99 "2010-06-01T16:44:09Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Absolutely! The majority of call girls, escorts, and other non-street-level prostitutes are educated and have other options, and a significant percentage of them are actually paying their way through college with the work. I think I disagree with this statement. “Majority?” Really? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968/100 "2010-06-01T16:46:36Z")
The “trafficking” thing is awfully reminiscent of the salacious, borderline perverse, obsession that dirty old congressmen indulged in during the “white slave” panic. The high-end numbers all seem to rule out any possibility of free agency, which doesn’t seem realistic, or to rely upon a very expansive definition of exploitation based on some quasi-Marxist theory of economic compulsion. I also have some difficulty imagining (again, to take a literal or close-to-literal definition of the word) “imprisoning” or “trapping” large numbers of young women in major modern American cities. I mean, you hear about this stuff going down in strip mall massage facilities, not dungeons where they’re forced to live under lock and key. By the way, I’ve suspected some of the more lurid trafficking stories of having been planted by pro-illegal immigrant activists or immigration lawyers, as a suspiciously prevalent theme is the urgent need for a “victim of trafficking” asylum provision. That’d be a holy grail for at least half the illegal immigrants going, as all you’d have to do is recite some rote story of being forced into prostitution in a secret (and hence un-verifiable) brothel and hey presto the economic migrant is home free. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-are-sex-workers-to-be-exploited/540968.md?page=6)