# How likely is it that Trump was even competent enough to make deals with Russia during the campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660 "2018-02-27T04:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/1 "2018-02-27T04:16:50Z")
I think Trump is an obviously incompetent pathological liar. He’s a living example of why maybe Democracy is flawed and maybe not just everyone should have the right to vote. Maybe the majority are simply not fit to rule, and maybe the right to vote should be weighted or based on some proof of basic competence and knowledge as an adult. But with that said…did Trump personally work these alleged clandestine deals? I just feel like he may have been too lazy/too busy watching TV or talking shit to actually do them. The sad thing is, Mueller may not nail Trump because he didn’t personally do it. What’s the straight dope on this? Is it possible the Cheeto is too much of an incompetent buffoon to be a criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/2 "2018-02-27T04:23:27Z")
More rant than anything. Moved fron GD to the Pit. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/3 "2018-02-27T04:44:28Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I think Trump is an obviously incompetent pathological liar. He’s a living example of why maybe Democracy is flawed and maybe not just everyone should have the right to vote. Maybe the majority are simply not fit to rule, and maybe the right to vote should be weighted or based on some proof of basic competence and knowledge as an adult. > > But with that said…did Trump personally work these alleged clandestine deals? I just feel like he may have been too lazy/too busy watching TV or talking shit to actually do them. The sad thing is, Mueller may not nail Trump because he didn’t personally do it. > > What’s the straight dope on this? Is it possible the Cheeto is too much of an incompetent buffoon to be a criminal? More like too criminal to be that incompetent. I doubt they’ll be able to connect Trump to the Russia meddling; he’ll probably slime his way out of that somehow. But obstruction and money laundering have teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/4 "2018-02-27T04:51:29Z")
From Andy Borowitz last year: “Putin Starting to Wonder If His Puppets Are Smart Enough to Pull This Off” > **[Putin Starting to Wonder If His Puppets Are Smart Enough to Pull This Off](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-starting-to-wonder-if-his-puppets-are-smart-enough-to-pull-this-off)** > > Putin knew that “there were bound to be some growing pains,” a source close to the Russian President said. “But geez.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/5 "2018-02-27T04:56:15Z")
I don’t think Trump himself has to be all that smart for it. He just needs to indirectly tell other people to do it (like he tried to with the FBI commissioner), and then otherwise not get involved to maintain separation. That said, he is the one guy where I could believe his underlings actually did it without his knowledge. Problem is, he’s been trying to undermine the investigation, and it’s the cover up that often does you in. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/6 "2018-02-27T08:51:59Z")
Well he’s stupid enough to sign up for something “secret” that pays him money or benefits him in some other way. And understands enough to, say, hide his tax returns. The thing is, if it were just russia collusion I might feel sorry for him as I agree that he’s probably too stupid to understand what he was getting involved with. But he’s a despicable person in general, so I’m glad that in this case it’s unlikely that any distinction will be made between “doing something you’re vaguely aware is wrong, then trying to cover your tracks” and “knowingly colluding with a foreign government then trying to obstruct justice” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/7 "2018-02-27T11:22:11Z")
When you’re the guy in charge, you don’t have to be in the weeds. All you have to do is authorize and be aware of the broad strokes. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/8 "2018-02-27T13:55:33Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > When you’re the guy in charge, you don’t have to be in the weeds. All you have to do is authorize and be aware of the broad strokes. Or deliberately and knowingly “look the other way”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/9 "2018-02-27T15:05:13Z")
So that’s now the best that you wingnuts can do. He’s now too stupid to be corrupt. Unbelievable. You fucking got him elected. YOU OWN THIS. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/10 "2018-02-27T15:29:48Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > So that’s now the best that you wingnuts can do. He’s now too stupid to be corrupt. > Unbelievable. > > You fucking got him elected. > > YOU OWN THIS. A majority did not vote for him. Our lame Electoral College system elected him. Stupidity will always be thump’s first, last, and best defense. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/11 "2018-02-27T15:35:38Z")
I think this may be a good question. It is possible that his incredible ego and narcissism made him easy to manipulate. He’s not that bright, but you could never convince HIM of that. And to head off \*\*John DiFool \*\*, I am a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/12 "2018-02-27T15:40:25Z")
How bright do you have to be to say yes to “Ditch the sanctions and we’ll forgive the debt you owe the Russian mafia, meaning me.”? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/13 "2018-02-27T20:33:40Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I think this may be a good question. It is possible that his incredible ego and narcissism made him easy to manipulate. He’s not that bright, but you could never convince HIM of that. > > And to head off \*\*John DiFool \*\*, I am a Democrat. I agree. As I have said before, Money, Ideology, Compromise, Ego. Those are the reasons people betray their country. Any and all of those could apply to Trump. But he doesn’t have to be consciously aware that he’s been compromised in order to play the role of Russia’s bitch. I think that’s why Trump is always screaming about how there’s no collusion. The Russians didn’t ask him if he wanted to be their puppet, they just went ahead and did it. But Trump refuses to admit that it’s possible for someone else to be pulling the strings. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/14 "2018-02-27T20:40:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > When you’re the guy in charge, you don’t have to be in the weeds. All you have to do is authorize and be aware of the broad strokes. Just ask Chris Christie. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/15 "2018-02-27T22:22:01Z")
Trump is generally an idiot and thinks himself way smarter than he is, but he seems just smart enough to not do things electronically (except for his Twitter habit). I think I read awhile ago that he purposely stayed away from using email and the like so he wouldn’t leave a paper trail if people tried to sue his Trump business. I can’t recall if that also goes for snail mail and other non-electronic communications. It sounded like first his Trump secretary then Hope Hicks handled all the communications for him. So it’s possible there will be no electronic paper trail leading directly to him on collusion with the Russians. But I can see getting him on after the fact obstruction. Plus, with Mueller looking at a lot of stuff, including Manafort’s dirty dealings, there could be non-election related dirty deals he could be caught on ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/16 "2018-02-28T03:22:23Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > So that’s now the best that you wingnuts can do. He’s now too stupid to be corrupt. > Unbelievable. > > You fucking got him elected. > > YOU OWN THIS. This over and over and over again. **AND** … Someone can be stupid AND corrupt AND a traitor AND be doing it deliberately. However most of us did NOT vote for that fuck stick. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/17 "2018-02-28T04:22:07Z")
I liked Michelle Goldberg’s column today. She said > [@](#): > > None of last week’s new information proves that Trump is too disloyal to his own country to be president. But the only alternative is that he’s too clueless. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/18 "2018-02-28T04:25:33Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > Trump is generally an idiot and thinks himself way smarter than he is, but he seems just smart enough to not do things electronically (except for his Twitter habit). I think I read awhile ago that he purposely stayed away from using email and the like so he wouldn’t leave a paper trail if people tried to sue his Trump business. I can’t recall if that also goes for snail mail and other non-electronic communications. It sounded like first his Trump secretary then Hope Hicks handled all the communications for him. So it’s possible there will be no electronic paper trail leading directly to him on collusion with the Russians. But I can see getting him on after the fact obstruction. Plus, with Mueller looking at a lot of stuff, including Manafort’s dirty dealings, there could be non-election related dirty deals he could be caught on Like I said in another thread, I think Trump doesn’t know anything because he doesn’t know ANYTHING. He might know that some Russians helped out some of the people on his campaign, but I doubt he KNOWS any more about it than he does the Constitution, the job duties of the POTUS, or any public policy issues. And his ego makes him incredibly easy to manipulate. His denials of the Steele stuff are meaningless, because no one ever claims that he knew what was going on. Except for the “salacious detail” —-and I don’t think that’s Trump in the pee tape - he doesn’t seem to me like someone who would be into hookers, his more into power trips like seducing hit models or other guys wives. I think he sent someone else into the room. Or it’s someone else named Donald Trump. I believe the tape exists because I heard some agents saw it, that was buried in some other news story. But they said the man is not identifiable. But I digress I think Trump was unwittingly stupid at times and wittingly stupid at times. And I think they’ll find that a whole bunch of the guys involved with the campaign were colluding, and Trump will claim they were acting on their own. And all the Republicans will say “ Witch Hunt, we were right, no collusion” even as the indictments are handed down. And they’ll get away with it. But in any case, I think they’ll they’ll have a obstruction of justice complaint the size of the Manhattan phone book. But nothing will happen with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/19 "2018-02-28T04:42:26Z")
I don’t think Trump was attempting some “grand bargain”. He just wants tough guys like Putin to like or respect him. It doesn’t seem to have gotten Trump a whole lot. Of course, doing stupid things like (for one example) giving secret info from Israel to Russia is just… somewhere between incompetent and treasonous. IANAL, so I don’t know where exactly that falls on the scale. > [@Bayard](#): > > From Andy Borowitz last year: “Putin Starting to Wonder If His Puppets Are Smart Enough to Pull This Off” > > [Putin Starting to Wonder If His Puppets Are Smart Enough to Pull This Off | The New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/putin-starting-to-wonder-if-his-puppets-are-smart-enough-to-pull-this-off) I think Borowitz writes great satire 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/20 "2018-02-28T05:13:14Z")
I doubt Trump masterminded any deals as he is far too stupid to handle that level of responsibility. What may have happened is his underlings wrote up some deals with the Russians and Trump nodded his approval for them, not really understanding or caring whether the deals were legal or what the deals entailed. He just knew his ego would benefit in the moment so he said ok. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660.md?page=2)