# How likely is it that Trump was even competent enough to make deals with Russia during the campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660 "2018-02-27T04:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/21 "2018-02-28T06:13:41Z")
Intelligence services don’t make deals. They manipulate. They get you to sign documents, “As a formality”, then later tell you that you just committed espionage with a foreign power. They suck you in. This is standard practice. Some say that the Trump campaign was too chaotic to cut a deal with Russia. No: that’s _exactly_ the sort of environment that spies like. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/22 "2018-02-28T18:26:42Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I doubt Trump masterminded any deals as he is far too stupid to handle that level of responsibility. What may have happened is his underlings wrote up some deals with the Russians and Trump nodded his approval for them, not really understanding or caring whether the deals were legal or what the deals entailed. He just knew his ego would benefit in the moment so he said ok. It does not matter if he is stupid or incompetent or anything else. If he nodded approval, or grunted approval, or gave a thumbs up, or deliberately CHOSE to not know (a common “trick” that doesn’t really work), he is still guilty. The movie villain version would be “I want that guy gone. Don’t tell me how”. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/23 "2018-02-28T18:31:33Z")
I think collusion with Russia is a misnomer, I think it’s more accurate to describe it as manipulation by Russia of Trump. And from Russia’s perspective, the collusion becoming known is a feature, it helps destabilize the US by undermining confidence in our political system and exacerbating social rifts. Plus, the US now has an incredibly incompetent and corrupt leader beholden to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/24 "2018-02-28T19:16:04Z")
From his planned bankruptcies to workers striking to buying cheaper non-American made building materials in his faux real estate days, I’d say it’s obvious and way more than likely that he makes deals with lowlifes since he’s been 20 years old. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/25 "2018-02-28T22:40:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It does not matter if he is stupid or incompetent or anything else. > > If he nodded approval, or grunted approval, or gave a thumbs up, or deliberately CHOSE to not know (a common “trick” that doesn’t really work), he is still guilty. > > The movie villain version would be “I want that guy gone. Don’t tell me how”. I agree. I’m just saying Trump himself isn’t intelligent enough to actually write up a bilateral secret agreement with Russia. They hack our elections and funnel money to the GOP, in return Trump promises them a pro-Russia legislative agenda. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/26 "2018-03-01T01:29:28Z")
This thread reminds me of something I found amusing in the [Nunes “rebuttal” to the Democratic memo](https://intelligence.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Democrat_Memo_Charge_and_Response.pdf). He basically makes the idiot defense for Carter Page: > [@](#): > > Additionally, the Democrat memo—like the FISA application itself—paints an incomplete and misleading picture of Page’s past activities and interactions with the FBI. Both omit that, in a secretly-taped statement reproduced in a 2015 federal court filing, a Russian intelligence officer called Page “an idiot.” This omission could mislead the reader regarding the Russians’ assessment of Page’s capabilities and utility, and it is troubling that DOJ failed to provide to a secret court material information from a public court filing. I thought it was one of the more surreal parts of the whole thing. What was the DOJ supposed to say, “Well, on the negative side we have all this evidence of interactions between Page and the Russians, but on the positive side the Russians apparently think Page is an idiot”? Maybe that’s something they can run on this year…“Vote Republican because we’re too stupid to commit treason!” ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/27 "2018-03-01T02:09:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It does not matter if he is stupid or incompetent or anything else. > > If he nodded approval, or grunted approval, or gave a thumbs up, or deliberately CHOSE to not know (a common “trick” that doesn’t really work), he is still guilty. > > The movie villain version would be “I want that guy gone. Don’t tell me how”. Mitchell and Webb: [‘“Have him removed”. “Take him out of the picture”. I thought we agreed at the meeting that these terms were needlessly ambiguous.’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6cake3bwnY). ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660/28 "2018-03-01T02:59:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think collusion with Russia is a misnomer, I think it’s more accurate to describe it as manipulation by Russia of Trump. And from Russia’s perspective, the collusion becoming known is a feature, it helps destabilize the US by undermining confidence in our political system and exacerbating social rifts. Plus, the US now has an incredibly incompetent and corrupt leader beholden to Russia. I agree with all of that. And I wonder if the Russians will leak incriminating stuff just to fuel the fire. Because that Don Jr e-mail was so incriminating that it had to be a set-up, people just don’t write things like that. And I am reading this really great book that **BobLibDem** recommended in another thread. \*Collusion, Secret Meetings, Dirty Money and How Russia Helped Donald Trump Win. \* The title made me think it might be too sensational for my taste but so far it seems quite even-handed. But they were talking about Russia and sex tapes and past incidents when they have been leaked/released to Russian media. In many cases, the people being implicated claimed that it wasn’t them in the tapes and in some cases Putin was coy in a well, it looks like it could possibly be him. But even if the identities are suspect, the release of the tape is very damaging. It’s the visuals in the tape combined with the doubt. October Surpise, anyone? In regards to “beholden to Russia”, I think that’s because Trump has always had the bizarre man-crush on Putin. I think it’s mostly because Putin is the pinnacle of evil authoritarian dictatoring. It kind of reminds me of how the garage band teenagers of my youth felt about Springsteen. But even if Putin had personally financed and managed the Trump campaign for free, Trump wold probably refuse to give him any credit. Trump would deeply and truly believe that Donald Trump was 100% responsible for his victory and that he didn’t owe anybody anything. Trump will never be beholden to anyone. Because being beholden requires the ability to experience gratitude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-likely-is-it-that-trump-was-even-competent-enough-to-make-deals-with-russia-during-the-campaign/809660.md?page=1)